Magnus #801

First topic message reminder :

I have been playing with some Magnus #801 Button Nose 185 grain that are an improved H&G 130 according to the Magnus web site.

I have been very impressed with the accuracy that I'm getting with this bullet over 4.0 of BE.

Except for the very short OAL because of the button nose  and not cutting clean holes in the target these bullets are shooting great in both my Clark Long Slide and the BE gun I built with Kart barrel.

Anybody else using these 801's ?


Virgil

Mike, the #801 is a cast bullet. that dark circular mark is the sprue cutoff. where the liquid lead was poured into the mold. It's generally near impossible to have a perfectly flat base with cast bullets. These are about as flat as your going to get with production made bullets.
When I was shooting IHMSA using cast .30 cal bullets, I'd run the bullets into a fixture and true the bases perpendicular to the sides. course, that was for 200 M shooting...

mikemyers wrote:If I set the bullet down on a flat surface, it is slightly "beveled" on the base, so it rests in the middle, and can be rocked back and forth.  Is this what you mean?  Did Terry do this as a deliberate choice?  Is that the explanation for the darker area on the base of the bullet?

this is a bevel base

I've used 1000's of them, they sure look flat to me, especially compared to the hoem cast h&g 68's. 

I leave about a 1/32" if the shoulder exposed and crimp to .469. My tight pistols need 4.2 of WST to stay reliable. I like the bullets a lot and Terry brings them to Columbia matches for me to pickup.

Well, it took me 2 1/2 hours to convert my press for 45 ACP (basically, started at the beginning, and had to read a lot to make sure I was doing the dies correctly).  when everything was set, it probably too me fifteen minutes to make 24 cartridges, starting with one at a time, and only after I felt comfortable, using the press as it's supposed to be used.  I could have kept going, but I want to make sure everything works before I load more.  (Next time, now that I have notes, it will probably be a ten minute change-over from one size to another.)

Back to #801 bullets, what difference if any could it make if the base of the bullet is not perfectly flat?  Anything gained by making it flatter, might be lost by changing the weight?  

Terry's bullets are MUCH nicer than what I used to load for my guns in the 1980's - back then, my hands came away looking silver plated!  No kidding!!  Maybe Terry's bullets have a coating of some type, that goes around the outside?

Regarding the blue/green rings around the bullet - that is "lubricant" for the bullet?

yep the green "stuff" is the lube.

mikemyers wrote:Regarding the blue/green rings around the bullet - that is "lubricant" for the bullet?

Yes

Any blue lubed 801's are older production and came from a different mold (per Terry).  I have 3 boxes - they all measure .453.

Went to the range today to try out the ammo.  Rather than clutter up this thread with a "problem", I'll start a new thread.  Maybe it's something easy to fix.

Quick question... I shoot both Magnus 801s and 802s and love them. However, I have a Jon Eulette built Springfield (Flawless job!) with an extremely tight Kart chamber. I have to wipe every round to remove the excess green lube that Terry uses from the case mouth or they wont consistently chamber.

Anyone have a good method to remove excess lube after loading for large batches rather than my method of wiping each round?

ruger15151 wrote:Quick question... I shoot both Magnus 801s and 802s and love them. However, I have a Jon Eulette built Springfield (Flawless job!) with an extremely tight Kart chamber. I have to wipe every round to remove the excess green lube that Terry uses from the case mouth or they wont consistently chamber.

Anyone have a good method to remove excess lube after loading for large batches rather than my method of wiping each round?

You are not expanding your case enough... note i said expanding not belling.  If you expanded more and to the correct depth and a slight bell on the case the bullet will side into the case.  Right now i bet your cases are under expanded so when you seat the bullet the case is scraping off some of the lube and lays in its final resting place by the case mouth.  As this happens your reloading dies get caked with lube, depositing lube on the bullet as well and changing your seating depth and crimp.

I use a Redding Expander die which creates a step just like the Lyman M dies. It expands a step in the mouth to .453 and then adds a flare which should be perfect for a .452 bullet. I have the depth set so the bullet sits in the case 2/3 of the way up to the lube grove. Its not shaving lead nor much lube. However, every few rounds have a small amount of lube (no shaved lead) at the case mouth.

I am just looking for a better cleaning method than wiping each individual round. I read that some guys put their rounds in bags, spray down with WD-40 and let sit overnight. That is suppose to desolve any excess lube and removes any small lead shavings.

Was just looking to see if anyone else has a favorite method.

ruger15151 wrote:Quick question... I shoot both Magnus 801s and 802s and love them. However, I have a Jon Eulette built Springfield (Flawless job!) with an extremely tight Kart chamber. I have to wipe every round to remove the excess green lube that Terry uses from the case mouth or they wont consistently chamber.

Anyone have a good method to remove excess lube after loading for large batches rather than my method of wiping each round?

I agree you might not be expanding enough.  I don't have any problems with Terry's lube.

Here are a couple of other options
Before you load remove the lube completely with mineral spirits and relube with 45-45-10.  This is something Jerry Keefer was doing and I have started to test it out.  

If you have a batch of loaded ammo toss them in a towel with some mineral spirits grab 2 corners in 1 hand and 2 in the other and make like you are cleaning a bowling ball.  OR add some mineral spirits to your vibratory cleaner's media and toss in a couple hundred rounds and let it do the work.  IT WILL NOT HARM YOUR AMMO nor will it set off a round!
- Dave

How does one adjust the amount of expansion, without also changing the amount of belling?

mikemyers wrote:How does one adjust the amount of expansion, without also changing the amount of belling?

Lyman M Style and Redding Expander dies all have a stepped expander plug that expands the case and then creates a step that is .001 larger than a typical .452 diameter lead bullet. They also create a flair to prevent shaving.

NOE makes expander plugs with this design that work with Lee Universal Expander dies. They make them in several sixes depending on the diameter bullet you are using.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=1795.0

I have several and they work really well.

mikemyers wrote:How does one adjust the amount of expansion, without also changing the amount of belling?

I have custom made expanders made for my Star press. Jerry wrote up a great post on facebook on the accuracy lost by not expanding properly.  When you expand a case you get springback i get .003 so my expander is .455 for lead  .452 bullets.

Jerry used a dillon 1050 with a expander only in one of the tool head lots. Then the dillon universal pistol powder through funnel that adds a bell.... well thats what i remember the last time i saw his setup.

Chris Miceli wrote:

mikemyers wrote:How does one adjust the amount of expansion, without also changing the amount of belling?

I have custom made expanders made for my Star press. Jerry wrote up a great post on facebook on the accuracy lost by not expanding properly.  When you expand a case you get springback i get .003 so my expander is .455 for lead  .452 bullets.

Jerry used a dillon 1050 with a expander only in one of the tool head lots. Then the dillon universal pistol powder through funnel that adds a bell.... well thats what i remember the last time i saw his setup.

Many use the NOE ".456 x .453 (P) Exp. Plug (45PEXP)" in a Lee Universal Expanded die. My standard 45 ACP Redding Expander die has the same dimensions. The .456 step allows for the .003 -.004 spring back that you are referring to depending on the case and still creates a pocket large enough for the .452 diameter bullet to sit in before it is seated.

Here is a link on this forum where this is discussed.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t8835-correct-diameter-expander-for-45-acp-lead

ruger15151 wrote:

mikemyers wrote:How does one adjust the amount of expansion, without also changing the amount of belling?

Lyman M Style and Redding Expander dies all have a stepped expander plug that expands the case and then creates a step that is .001 larger than a typical .452 diameter lead bullet. They also create a flair to prevent shaving.

NOE makes expander plugs with this design that work with Lee Universal Expander dies. They make them in several sixes depending on the diameter bullet you are using.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=1795.0

I have several and they work really well.

Thanks for the link.  Will ask my question there, not here.  Until an hour ago, I never heard of any of this....

I would think that those bullets would work for all of you B/E shooters. The large radius does not allow it to print a round hole though. And I am blind as a bat and need a bullet that prints even at less than 21 ft.

beeser wrote:Did my best today (2.5" group of 5 shots at 25 yds.) with what seems to be an equivalent to the Magnus #801.  See Missouri Bullet link below.
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=123&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=
The only problem was the lube and/or coating was so thick that I had to wipe the tip of all completed cartridges with a paper towel.  It would gum up the case gage otherwise.  Even then the blue lube was splattered all over the target.

Not the Magnus much different. MO is not my favorite caster try summers enterprises cheap and good.

If you check other forums you will fid that Summers Enterprises bullets are known for their exceptional quality while being very fairly priced.

I looked over their web page, https://www.summersenterprisesllc.com

I remember back when I was using Speer and Hornady bullets (when I first came to this forum), and so many people recommended I switch to Magnus bullets (http://www.magnusbullets.com).  I didn't know what to think about any of this, but then I called and had a long talk with Terry Labbe.  It has been his company since back in the 1980's.  After a few minutes on the phone, talking to Terry was like talking to an old friend.

I like all the personal attention I get from Terry.  He asks about what I do, and how I do it, and tries to help me get what's best for me.  What really caught my attention is that he told me he would send me the box of ammo, and if it wasn't the best for me and my gun, he'd send me a box of a slightly different sized ammo, and let me keep the first box at no charge.  With an attitude like that, and so many people with so many good things to say about Magnus Bullets, I wouldn't shop anywhere else.  ....but that's me.  I like that when I call with a question, he's on the phone with me for a very long time, and I always come away knowing things I didn't realize before.

..........talking to Terry is like picking up The Pistol Shooter's Treasury, and reading.  Same style, same good excellent information...   It was nothing like my long talks with tech support people at Speer and Hornady, only to have someone here tell me that their advice wasn't appropriate for Bullseye Shooting.

mikemyers wrote:I looked over their web page, https://www.summersenterprisesllc.com

I remember back when I was using Speer and Hornady bullets (when I first came to this forum), and so many people recommended I switch to Magnus bullets (http://www.magnusbullets.com).  I didn't know what to think about any of this, but then I called and had a long talk with Terry Labbe.  It has been his company since back in the 1980's.  After a few minutes on the phone, talking to Terry was like talking to an old friend.

I like all the personal attention I get from Terry.  He asks about what I do, and how I do it, and tries to help me get what's best for me.  What really caught my attention is that he told me he would send me the box of ammo, and if it wasn't the best for me and my gun, he'd send me a box of a slightly different sized ammo, and let me keep the first box at no charge.  With an attitude like that, and so many people with so many good things to say about Magnus Bullets, I wouldn't shop anywhere else.  ....but that's me.  I like that when I call with a question, he's on the phone with me for a very long time, and I always come away knowing things I didn't realize before.

..........talking to Terry is like picking up The Pistol Shooter's Treasury, and reading.  Same style, same good excellent information...   It was nothing like my long talks with tech support people at Speer and Hornady, only to have someone here tell me that their advice wasn't appropriate for Bullseye Shooting.

+100

Not only does Terry provide a wealth of knowledge, he also provides a discount to Bullseye-L members.