Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
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rich.tullo
ruger15151
mikemyers
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bmize1
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Multiracer
JayhawkNavy02
blindshooter
jglenn21
Dr.Don
Aprilian
SmokinNJokin
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Bullseye_Stan
Jon Eulette
243winxb
Chris Miceli
james r chapman
fpk
robert84010
Gary Wells
cdrt
wizzer
28 posters
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Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I will be purchasing several custom expanders. Assuming .452" lead bullets and new brass, should we be using a .450 or .451 diameter expander? Maybe .452 on work hardened brass?
Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.
Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.
Last edited by wizzer on 12/26/2017, 9:41 am; edited 2 times in total
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Deleted
Last edited by cdrt on 12/26/2017, 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
cdrt- Posts : 844
Join date : 2016-04-12
Location : Amarillo, Texas
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Deleted per N/A notation.
Last edited by Gary Wells on 12/26/2017, 3:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
n/a
Last edited by wizzer on 12/26/2017, 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".
robert84010- Posts : 834
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I use the NOE ".456 x .453 (P) Exp. Plug (45PEXP)" in a Lee Universal Expander die. This opens the mouth up (not flares it) enough to hand seat LSWC for about half the driving bands.
Unfortunately the larger diameter is very short on the NOE plugs, so it does not size enough for 38 Special HBWC bullets. I wish someone made custom size expander plugs for 38 (.360 x.400 length) and 45 (.456 x .200 length).
Unfortunately the larger diameter is very short on the NOE plugs, so it does not size enough for 38 Special HBWC bullets. I wish someone made custom size expander plugs for 38 (.360 x.400 length) and 45 (.456 x .200 length).
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
fpk--- Buffalo Arms might make a long 38 special for you.
Last edited by wizzer on 12/26/2017, 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I believe .456 for lead .
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
.456---no kidding? I would not have thought that much, but that is why I asked. Seems like the bullet would be slightly loose in the case, or do we get enough springback in the case to snug things up?
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Well, I have several at .455 and you still have to bell the case.
So spring back is an issue
You still have to crimp and the .456 is only for about half the bearing surface.
So spring back is an issue
You still have to crimp and the .456 is only for about half the bearing surface.
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
So without getting too anal, are we worried about deforming the lower portion of the bullet the sits below the .456 ID? Do we get a somewhat longer expander shaft?
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
No. You need the brass to grip.
It's only to provide a shelf to allow for a straight seating bullet.
It's only to provide a shelf to allow for a straight seating bullet.
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
some excellent advise from Jerry that applies to the 45 as well.
"one of the secrets to lead, is to form the brass to accept 90% of the bullet with only mild finger pressure.. The long 38 Hollow base wad cutters are approx. .580 long..Here I am loading PENN double end solids, which are approx .525 All but about .050 should slide into the case with ease.. No force..to prevent sizing the bullet down below bore diameter. The only dies I ever saw designed specifically for the long 38 wad cutters were the now extinct CH Auto Champ. This Dillion punch is custom ground.." Jerry Keefer
"pull several of your loaded rounds and mic them.. Usually, they will be small, even on the 45.." Jerry Keefer
"Remember, have the punch ground so there is enough adjustment to control the depth..Stop the forming so about .025/.030 of the bullet cannot be pushed in by hand.. This will prevent unwanted movement or set back during seating and or recoil.." Jerry Keefer
"one of the secrets to lead, is to form the brass to accept 90% of the bullet with only mild finger pressure.. The long 38 Hollow base wad cutters are approx. .580 long..Here I am loading PENN double end solids, which are approx .525 All but about .050 should slide into the case with ease.. No force..to prevent sizing the bullet down below bore diameter. The only dies I ever saw designed specifically for the long 38 wad cutters were the now extinct CH Auto Champ. This Dillion punch is custom ground.." Jerry Keefer
"pull several of your loaded rounds and mic them.. Usually, they will be small, even on the 45.." Jerry Keefer
"Remember, have the punch ground so there is enough adjustment to control the depth..Stop the forming so about .025/.030 of the bullet cannot be pushed in by hand.. This will prevent unwanted movement or set back during seating and or recoil.." Jerry Keefer
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Good info, much appreciated.
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
robert84010 wrote:I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".
Have not been able to find this exact item that will fit anything Dillon, do you have some contact info?
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
a guy off facebook made me a custom expander for my dillon. A believe a ebay seller is out there doing the same.wizzer wrote:robert84010 wrote:I don't know the o.d. of the Lyman M die but I bought the expander made for Dillon presses off of Ebay based on the Lyman. I measured it at .452".
Have not been able to find this exact item that will fit anything Dillon, do you have some contact info?
Chris Miceli- Posts : 2715
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Northern Virginia
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
https://www.ebay.com/usr/gscustom2013?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
This is the guy, I tried contacting him months ago for one in 9mm but he never replied. I don't think he has sold anything on Ebay for some time? The one made for the Mr. Bulletfeeder is a similar design that others here have said works fine. That is what I got for my 9mm setup. I haven't used it yet.
This is the guy, I tried contacting him months ago for one in 9mm but he never replied. I don't think he has sold anything on Ebay for some time? The one made for the Mr. Bulletfeeder is a similar design that others here have said works fine. That is what I got for my 9mm setup. I haven't used it yet.
robert84010- Posts : 834
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
.450" diameter. The brand and condition of brass will determine the final ID of the case.
Use a BHN 15 alloy for the cast bullets @ .452" dia.
Use a BHN 15 alloy for the cast bullets @ .452" dia.
243winxb- Posts : 344
Join date : 2013-12-01
Age : 80
Location : USA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
RCBS makes Cowboy dies with an expander only for lead. Some say its .451" other give different measurement. I dont have one.
Call RCBS
The 200 gr lswc Lyman Bevel base is most forgiving for me.
Call RCBS
The 200 gr lswc Lyman Bevel base is most forgiving for me.
243winxb- Posts : 344
Join date : 2013-12-01
Age : 80
Location : USA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
My Star is 0.4508" Bullets only finger seat on top of the case mouth flare.
Just tossing that out there.
Jon
Just tossing that out there.
Jon
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I guess I'm lost...
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
FWIW, my Lee powder through expander has a diameter of 0.452" along its ~0.300" length to the bell flare. My NOE bullet M-style bullet expander for the Lee universal die measures 0.448" in diameter from the start for a ~0.230" length with a 0.452" diameter step ~0.110" long and a final step measuring 0.477" in diameter ~0.120" long. I expect the larger 0.477" diameter is for spring back when expanding the brass. Eventually, when my tools arrive, I intend to modify one of the Lee powder through expander inserts to mimic the Noe M-style bullet expander dimensions and see how that works. I don't expect any significant benefit, but it could happen.
Bullseye_Stan- Posts : 274
Join date : 2017-06-11
Location : Hampton Roads, VA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Stan:Bullseye_Stan wrote:FWIW, my Lee powder through expander has a diameter of 0.452" along its ~0.300" length to the bell flare. My NOE bullet M-style bullet expander for the Lee universal die measures 0.448" in diameter from the start for a ~0.230" length with a 0.452" diameter step ~0.110" long and a final step measuring 0.477" in diameter ~0.120" long. I expect the larger 0.477" diameter is for spring back when expanding the brass. Eventually, when my tools arrive, I intend to modify one of the Lee powder through expander inserts to mimic the Noe M-style bullet expander dimensions and see how that works. I don't expect any significant benefit, but it could happen.
Is the "Moe' style bullet expander threaded?
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Gary,
Here is the NOE expander I purchased: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1611&osCsid=54ho3mnldg1icu5lju5j2143e0
It's listed as a 0.452x0.448 expander, which pretty much match my measurements. Since that expander is what I ordered, it's what I received. That in no way means I knew what I was doing upon ordering that expander. They make several other sizes, including a 0.453x0.448, 0.454x0.450, 0.455x0.451, 0.456x0.452, 0.457x0.453, 0.458x0.454 which all seem appropriate for the 45acp.
I probably need to order a Lyman M expander die in 45acp and get the dimensions from that expander. Thinking about this a bit more, I've got three of the Lee through powder expanders so making one 0.456"x0.452" makes sense - probably more so than the 0.477"x0.452".
Here is the NOE expander I purchased: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=1611&osCsid=54ho3mnldg1icu5lju5j2143e0
It's listed as a 0.452x0.448 expander, which pretty much match my measurements. Since that expander is what I ordered, it's what I received. That in no way means I knew what I was doing upon ordering that expander. They make several other sizes, including a 0.453x0.448, 0.454x0.450, 0.455x0.451, 0.456x0.452, 0.457x0.453, 0.458x0.454 which all seem appropriate for the 45acp.
I probably need to order a Lyman M expander die in 45acp and get the dimensions from that expander. Thinking about this a bit more, I've got three of the Lee through powder expanders so making one 0.456"x0.452" makes sense - probably more so than the 0.477"x0.452".
Bullseye_Stan- Posts : 274
Join date : 2017-06-11
Location : Hampton Roads, VA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
The NOE 456/452 is the correct setup for Zero swaged bullets. Works great on my 1050.
Last edited by Blsi2600 on 12/30/2017, 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Blsi2600- Posts : 158
Join date : 2013-03-27
Location : SW ILLINOIS
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