The Updated Rules

First topic message reminder :

The updated rules.

Hmmm.. I would make a different wager. I predict over a 500% increase in reported scores for .22 EIC and Service Pistol. Considering there were zero reported scores for .22 in 2014 that would be a safe bet. And we are going to have full lines shooting for the .22. There will be lots of 10 point Legs. I think if we separated them in the wager there will still be more shooters in the Service Pistol matches then previously. Not just because of the different pistols allowed but in a big part for the participation awards. Once the CMP starts sending them out, and the line gets to see them. We will see more shooters trying for the pins as well as the points.

Len

Also don't forget the extra matches allowed too.  There have been times when we could barely get six shooters on an local EIC match because several people didn't want to "waste" one of their 3 matches on a 6 point leg.  Now we might even get enough out to give out an 8 point leg.

- Dave

I was referring to the CF changes not including the new 22 program.

I know several shooters in my area that will now be shooting leg matches. They have a limited budget. This will allow them to shoot without feeling like a charity case using a borrowed, unfamiliar gun. 

The biggest potential gain for service pistol and service rifle will always be to get rifle guys to shoot pistol and vice versa.

I still think that they should have created another class for center fire and left the original "hardball" match alone. I just hope that the new rules will bring more folks to the firing line. ...and keep them there. 

Brian

DeweyHales wrote:I know several shooters in my area that will now be shooting leg matches. They have a limited budget. This will allow them to shoot without feeling like a charity case using a borrowed, unfamiliar gun. 

The biggest potential gain for service pistol and service rifle will always be to get rifle guys to shoot pistol and vice versa.

I agree with the crossover. But I have to say, starting rifle at 47  (and that is toward the young side of pistol) was not my best decision. Then again, I didn't know anyone who had ever shot high power until I was 45.

Jack H wrote:They can change rules all day long.  But they can not change people to want to travel 2-3 hours to shoot 30 shots.  Or to dedicate 5 hours a week for training and dryfire.  Most 30 shot events will coincide with 270 shot events.  Not to mention the special dedication for traveling 3000 miles to Perry.  I am not holding my breath for a lot of increase in participants.  

Someone had to say it.

My observation has been new shooters start the game at the club/league level then onto the NRA matches where hardball then enters the picture. Likely the increase will come from the existing pool. Everyone will want the .22 badge and those who were held back for lack of a ball gun can now use their .45 WC.

As Jack indicates if they are not already there for the NRA match how likely are they to come?

I just wish I were able to travel to shoot ANY of it. The .22 match would be fun!

Ron Habegger

Colt711 wrote:I just wish I were able to travel to shoot ANY of it. The .22 match would be fun!

I'm bitchy about all of these changes, but I like your attitude, Ron. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

I am glad Ron seems get my point.  This whole discussion has had lots of "what the rules do to/for me" and "what I want to/can do now to get more bling".  Starting at the club level is where we need to be thinking.  Got to get to thinking outside of our Precision Pistol box.  These new rules might give us a talking point to invite non-competitors to the range with their previously noncomplying pistols.  And if we can then keep the high-tech hardballers from intimidating the newbies with their own new bling getters......

Would a stock Range Officer in 45 be OK for these matches now?

Heck, I could take the scope of my Springfield Loaded wad gun and shoot that maybe????

What is this Euroweenie Ready Position Baloney at 7.0 Service and .22 Rimfire Pistol Competition Events, specifically 7.1.2 Firing Position p. 42:



7.1.2 Firing Position


All pistol firing shall be done in the standing, one-handed position. The
shooter’s body, clothing and gun must be clear of artificial support. In Service
Pistol matches, the ready position for timed and rapid-fire stages is with the
arm raised and the loaded pistol pointed at the target. In .22 Rimfire matches,
the ready position for timed and rapid-fire stages is with the loaded pistol
pointed down at a 45-degree angle. If the bench in front of the shooter is too
high to allow a 45-degree angle ready position, the ready position is with the
loaded pistol lowered as far as possible without contacting the bench (must
not rest on the bench). 

Incorporating the lift into the .22 matches might help train our young shooters to be more competitive in Standard Pistol, Rapid Pistol and Women's sport pistol. I'm pretty sure that's the idea anyway.

Jack H wrote:Starting at the club level is where we need to be thinking.  Got to get to thinking outside of our Precision Pistol box.  These new rules might give us a talking point to invite non-competitors to the range with their previously noncomplying pistols.  And if we can then keep the high-tech hardballers from intimidating the newbies with their own new bling getters....

Ron Habegger wrote:My observation has been new shooters start the game at the club/league level then onto the NRA matches where hardball then enters the picture. Likely the increase will come from the existing pool.

As you all know, NRA and CMP are to separate organizations.  NRA's efforts to increase participation in our sport has been....ineffective thus far.
Just as Ron said, shooters start plinking, then join a club, then a league, then start shooting NRA matches, then shoot ball matches.  CMP knows this....so CMP figured out a way that SOME new shooters would be able to participate in the CMP matches outside of the previous paradigm.  I say THANK YOU to the CMP for thinking of something that might work and implementing it in a way that allows more of those shooters to participate SOONER than they would have if the changes didn't happen.

That may work where you guys are. But Central VA really has no leagues. People go from plinking to NRA and or CMP or they do not compete in precision pistol. 

Over the past couple of years two retired shooters have started a coached practice sessions for members and guests at Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club. That has morphed into 2 monthly practice sessions and two monthly night matches. These are the first indoor evening Bullseye matches in Central VA in at least 5 years. 

Outdoor pistol for the most part runs April through October and then shuts down for the winter. So around here league action is non-existent. You shoot Bullseye and EIC or you don't shoot. 

Mike

I will now hunt the Sig target Legend.

The Sig might do it.

So, can we shoot the JHPs (e.g. Noslers)?  The concensus seems to be "yes", but it doesn't seem clear to me, in the updated rules.

Vociferous wrote:So, can we shoot the JHPs (e.g. Noslers)?  The concensus seems to be "yes", but it doesn't seem clear to me, in the updated rules.

I couldn't figure out how to point you to this post so I copied it from another thread - this should answer your question.

- Dave

Rob Kovach wrote:I received a clarification already. I sent the CMP this photo of 2 different "jacketed" bullets--one a Nosler 185Gr JHP that isn't jacketed on the tip and the other a ZERO 230gr FMJ that isn't jacketed on the base.

Here's the photo:


And here's CMP's response:

Rob,

Both styles of jacketed projectiles are acceptable under 6.6.2 Pistol Ammunition.
Best Regards,
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
Civilian Marksmanship Program

Thanks!

I did some research. I couldn't find any record of the US Military using a 9mm in a 1911 but I did find out that the Military bought and used a 1911 in 38 Super. Might be time to see if the CMP is ready to add pistols to their list. There must be quite a few old 1911s out there in that caliber that someone would like to shoot in a match. Might also be a race gun or two out there collecting dust.

This one looks a tad expensive but has the history attached.

http://classic.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8370793

At Phoenix last year E-7 from AMU used 9mm wadgun for CF match. 885 I believe. Hot ammo :p)
Jon

I've won 3 22 eic matches and have 18 points (3 6pt legs). Get 6 more at next match and search for bigger match; probably Phoenix.
Jon

Are they shooting .22 EIC at All Navy?

OldMaster66 wrote:Are they shooting .22 EIC at All Navy?

We didn't for the Atlantic side. Though many of us had a 22 with us.