Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
+9
DavidR
SMBeyer
jglenn21
Jon Eulette
ChipEck
fc60
Jack H
Tim:H11
mpolans
13 posters
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Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
So here's a strange one. Shooting .22 indoor at 25 yards, I've frequently had tighter groups in timed and rapid fire than in slow fire. I generally tend to shoot my timed fire at almost the same speed as the rapid fire strings...I'm not good at judging timing so I just shoot when the sights or dot look good. I generally shoot in the 270-280 range. Any thoughts on improving things?
mpolans- Posts : 606
Join date : 2016-05-27
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
Stop thinking during slow fire? In slow fire we can hold too long and over think our shot because we have all the time in the world. So we over do it causing mistakes to be made. That's been my problem at least.
Tim:H11- Posts : 2133
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 36
Location : Midland, GA
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
Your answer is within your own post.
"Any thoughts on improving things?"
In SF, stop thinking that.
"Any thoughts on improving things?"
In SF, stop thinking that.
Jack H- Posts : 2699
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
Greetings,
I have a turning target mechanism that has a three second face. I used it to practice slow fire at 25 yards. The idea was to settle in and break the shot within three seconds. It did work, as I soon fired a 2605 and 2607, the peak of my career.
The goal is to condition your sub conscious thought. When the eye aligns the sights in the correct place on the target, the brain sends a signal to the trigger finger. Some refer to it as rote rehearsal.
Best wishes on your slow fire quest.
Cheers,
Dave
I have a turning target mechanism that has a three second face. I used it to practice slow fire at 25 yards. The idea was to settle in and break the shot within three seconds. It did work, as I soon fired a 2605 and 2607, the peak of my career.
The goal is to condition your sub conscious thought. When the eye aligns the sights in the correct place on the target, the brain sends a signal to the trigger finger. Some refer to it as rote rehearsal.
Best wishes on your slow fire quest.
Cheers,
Dave
fc60- Posts : 1458
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
Good tip.fc60 wrote:Greetings,
I have a turning target mechanism that has a three second face. I used it to practice slow fire at 25 yards. The idea was to settle in and break the shot within three seconds. It did work, as I soon fired a 2605 and 2607, the peak of my career.
The goal is to condition your sub conscious thought. When the eye aligns the sights in the correct place on the target, the brain sends a signal to the trigger finger. Some refer to it as rote rehearsal.
Best wishes on your slow fire quest.
Cheers,
Dave
Chip
ChipEck- Posts : 198
Join date : 2015-11-15
Location : Wisconsin
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
My best groups have almost always been rapid fire. I believe its because I'm focused on keeping the trigger moving and in rapid fire you don't have time to make it too pretty like in timed fire which more often than not doesn't turn out as pretty
First shot is typically hardest shot for sustained fire. The other 4 just follow a bit easier.
Jon
First shot is typically hardest shot for sustained fire. The other 4 just follow a bit easier.
Jon
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
get the bullseye timer phone app... It has 2 and 4 second drills where you have to get the shot off in those time frames... really good practice for long and short line
jglenn21- Posts : 2620
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 76
Location : monroe , ga
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
For me the way I picked up points in slowfire was by being diligent with putting the gun down. Every time something is not right, put the gun down.
Scott
Scott
SMBeyer- Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-12-07
Age : 52
Location : Southern Illinois
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
The more time you have to think the harder it is to shoot a good shot.
DavidR- Admin
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 70
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
+1SMBeyer wrote:For me the way I picked up points in slowfire was by being diligent with putting the gun down. Every time something is not right, put the gun down.
Scott
Good SF comes from hard work. Discipline is part of that battle.
Jon
Jon Eulette- Posts : 4399
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
While my sustained fire scores were usually 96+ my slow fire scores were in the 70's for a long time. During a match when I had just cleaned a rapid fire target, I was so frustrated with my slow fire I had to try something so I shot the next slow fire like it was timed and didn't scope it between mags, I shot a 91. It was the first time I was in the 90's in SF since before my carpal tunnel surgery last year. I finally realized if I don't break my slow fire shot within 3 seconds of settling more often than not it's an 8 or worse.
Putting the gun down when it isn't there is my #1 challenge now.
- Dave
Putting the gun down when it isn't there is my #1 challenge now.
- Dave
Last edited by dronning on 8/3/2016, 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
dronning- Posts : 2581
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 71
Location : Lakeville, MN
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
I'm right there with you on the 50 yard targets.
One thing I have noticed is that my best 50 yard scores were the easiest targets to shoot. Just bring the gun up and pull the trigger, easier said than done.
One thing I have noticed is that my best 50 yard scores were the easiest targets to shoot. Just bring the gun up and pull the trigger, easier said than done.
Ghillieman- Posts : 468
Join date : 2012-02-14
Location : TEXAS
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
Article about Rob Mango that addresses the issue.
https://armyreservemarksman.info/2014/01/08/rob-mango-the-flow-of-shooting/
https://armyreservemarksman.info/2014/01/08/rob-mango-the-flow-of-shooting/
jmdavis- Posts : 1409
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Virginia
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
The other thing that will get you is your attitude. Correct attitude is "I can shoot a 10" not "don't put one in the white, don't put one in the white!"
SMBeyer- Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-12-07
Age : 52
Location : Southern Illinois
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
I have been struggling lately with the short line as well - just the opposite of your problem, really - consistently shoot mid 90's slow fire with my .45 and iron sights and then I will bomb sustained with low 90s or even high 80's.
The article by MSG Mango was very good - I am convinced my T+R problems are mental. I shoot 97-100s all day in practice but as soon as there is some pressure I am tripping all over myself (mentally) over-analyzing and getting my groove interrupted when little things don't go right - like taking too long to break the first shot.
I hate reading when experts and below give shooting advice - I'm not doing that, just relaying what the good shooters have said. Trusting your shot process and then just getting into the zone and relying on muscle memory seems to be the key to good sustained scores.
SM Beyer nailed it as well - focusing on the negative is a cancer that will ruin a good string. You shoot 10's in practice, you can do it in a match!
The article by MSG Mango was very good - I am convinced my T+R problems are mental. I shoot 97-100s all day in practice but as soon as there is some pressure I am tripping all over myself (mentally) over-analyzing and getting my groove interrupted when little things don't go right - like taking too long to break the first shot.
I hate reading when experts and below give shooting advice - I'm not doing that, just relaying what the good shooters have said. Trusting your shot process and then just getting into the zone and relying on muscle memory seems to be the key to good sustained scores.
SM Beyer nailed it as well - focusing on the negative is a cancer that will ruin a good string. You shoot 10's in practice, you can do it in a match!
SmokinNJokin- Posts : 851
Join date : 2015-07-27
Location : Wisconsin Rapids
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
That sounds familiar. I tend to work on making my first shot dead on, then the rest just happen as the sights come back and align on target. I try to be diligent about putting the gun down and starting over if the shot isn't going to happen. Previously, when shooting air pistol, I would try to force it, with predictably ugly results. Though I'm wondering if all the aborted shots and taking the extra time are working against me by tiring my arm out.Jon Eulette wrote:My best groups have almost always been rapid fire. I believe its because I'm focused on keeping the trigger moving and in rapid fire you don't have time to make it too pretty like in timed fire which more often than not doesn't turn out as pretty
First shot is typically hardest shot for sustained fire. The other 4 just follow a bit easier.
Jon
mpolans- Posts : 606
Join date : 2016-05-27
Re: Tighter Groups in Timed and Rapid vs Slow?
JMDavis, thanks for sharing that article from Mango.
Ghillieman- Posts : 468
Join date : 2012-02-14
Location : TEXAS
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