IZH35M Russian gun

Found this locally and the price was good and it appears to be unfired.  Anyone have one that can suggest what ammo to try in it?  Larry

Izzy clanker.  Everybody will know what you are shooting by the sound. 

Standard velocity only.  Nothing over 1080 fps.  

CCI Standard, Eley Target, SK Std Plus, SK Magazine, Wolf Target, Remington 6100,

CORRECTION:  Do not use Federal 711B.

Do not break anything.  Near zero parts availability.  No U.S. importer support.

Soft bolt face peening can cause problems at high round count.  Slam fires possible.

Fun gun.

I had one for a time that shot well with everything EXCEPT Federal 711, instant double and triple fire full autos.

Anything to watch for before dry firing? As in, is it safe to dry fire or does it need a plug or dry wall anchor to protect the chamber rim?

Also, anything tricky with the firing pin? Does it use a return spring?

I did some reading, didn't know that it is just an ugly Walther KSP 200. At least there is lots of info on the Walther and parts too.  I will shoot it tomorrow and see how it goes.  Larry

I had the IZH too. My other son Frank Jr. "borrowed" it.  It does have issues, I didn't like the grip safety. I also see in the photo yours has a Weaver scope mount, mine didn't have that nor those screws that hold the dust cover. Your looks a lot like the Walther upgrade. That small ejection port can be a problem if a round gets jammed it becomes a pain to remove.
 The firing pin does not have a spring and over time it gets packed with blow back so it will have to be cleaned. The one Great Thing is the double sear, I liked it sooooo much I copied the gun, photos have been posted a while ago. Changed a few things, later Adam started shooting with it and when he started shooting Master Scores I got him a 208S but he liked the one I made better and the 208 was his back-up. That trigger can be adjusted to anything you like!! Later the AW-93 was to have copied the IZH that's why I got it. Trigger in the AW is not as good. And I think the trigger system is poorly designed in the AW, yes it has a dual sear but the design is not as good as the IZH.  Last year I got a Match Gun2, the bolt is almost identical, the firing pin is exactly the same though I'm not sure if it's interchangeable. The hammer is also on the top and it too has a double sear somewhat like the IZH. Another plus in the gun is the very low barrel, it's the lowest allowed in International rules, another thing similar to the Match Gun. Though I think the IZH has the best hammer double sear design though the Match gun is dam near the same.
 Adam liked the IZH so he purchased one to add to collection but shoots the guns the AMU supplies.

I put 100 rounds through it today, 50 SK Standard Plus and 50 Wolf Match Target, they look identical with the same head stamp, they shot the same.  No malfunctions or problems.  The last 30 I put into a 3/8th scale target at 10 yards and it would work out to a 526.  The grip safety has to go for sure.  Larry

I have two of those in my collection. Most standard velocity ammo works well. Heavier lubed Stnd+ and Wolf MT/ME are my preferred ammo in those. Need to watch for the frame screws getting loose. Keep it lubed and wet inside. Exterior will look dry no mater what lube you use. Guns are capable of very tight groups, but very in-forgiving in my hands. Small trigger error results in the hole well outside of the good group. Grip safety is wedged with small peace of wood under the right grip panel in both of mine. While both guns outshoots most of the low and mid range small-bore semi autos (browning buckmarks, rugers and such) and fully X-Ring capable, I shot hammerli trailside and even CZ Kadet much better. Most parts are still available from EEA Corp from the time they imported it. http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/index.php/parts/baikal/mp-parts/izh-parts/izh35.html

Those two are off the same production line at Lapua. Identical product, different boxes.

Definitely not identical prices.  Good to know, thanks.  Larry

trotterlg wrote:I did some reading, didn't know that it is just an ugly Walther KSP 200. At least there is lots of info on the Walther and parts too.  I will shoot it tomorrow and see how it goes.  Larry

Its the opposite. Walther bought IZH-35M as a parts guns, cleaned up some, changed the grips and sold it as KSP 200.
Unlike Walther for AW-93, FWB bought IZH-35M design and rebuild it not using original IZH-35M parts.

Did a few mods on the grips today and they fit much better now.  The trigger can be adjusted to anything you like with 4 different screws, they did some real work on that part.  I took care of the grip safety by pulling it back and drilling and tapping a 2-56 screw into the frame in the bottom of the  blade, looks and works perfect.  The blade safety seems to be an old import requirement, Rossi suffered from them also on their single shots.  I will shoot is a little more now that it fits and the trigger is down to 1200 grams.   Larry

I had an early one around '99. Shot a lot of Aguila SV through it, around 15k rounds without a problem, very few alibis. I was shooting irons only then. At that time you could get hardened shroud screws and a better shaped trigger upgrade. It's the only gun I've ever shot 100 50' slow fire with. I got concerned about getting distinguished so sold it and started shooting a marvel, wish I had kept it now. I only paid $250 for it new at the time.

Sa-tevp wrote:Anything to watch for before dry firing? As in, is it safe to dry fire or does it need a plug or dry wall anchor to protect the chamber rim?

Also, anything tricky with the firing pin? Does it use a return spring?

only thing tricky is finding one when it breaks! many parts are non existent for these guns. Plus the bolt face is made of soft metal and will peen down and then start doubling, if you have skills there are you tube vids on how to fix this. great shooters just made of cheap sub par metal, replace the screws with good ones as the factory ones will break after a few removals. They will shoot anything far as ammo goes. When these came out my wholesale price was a little over 200.00 sold many brand new ones for 259.00 back in the day.

Yesterday I did pick up some proper hardened flathead cap screws for it, they are a metric thread, M4 I think.  Now that I have the trigger set and the grips fitted a little better I will shoot some more and see how it is. I did notice yesterday that it has a very tight chamber, you need to check that the bolt closed all the way on the first round, after that they all chambered and fired just fine. A last round bolt holdback would be nice but not really a big deal.   Larry

I like those. I wish I had one. If Mr. Froneck ever wanted to make another I would buy it at cost +1000. 

Where can one purchase a MG2?

trotterlg wrote:Yesterday I did pick up some proper hardened flathead cap screws for it, they are a metric thread, M4 I think.  Now that I have the trigger set and the grips fitted a little better I will shoot some more and see how it is. I did notice yesterday that it has a very tight chamber, you need to check that the bolt closed all the way on the first round, after that they all chambered and fired just fine. A last round bolt holdback would be nice but not really a big deal.   Larry

It may not be a tight chamber, look closely at the bolt face and see if it has peened down where the shell rim fits , sounds like it has, that is the major problem with these guns the soft metal peens every time the bolt loads a round eventually it will start doubling because the metal has peened the opening where the back of the shell fits causing it to pinch the rim as it closes and doubling or even going full auto has occurred.

It's not a problem really, just new probably, the bolt face is really flat, the bolt has a bar across the top of the face above the rim that stops it against the breach end of the barrel, there is not really a recess for the rim, the entire face of the bolt around the rim is held back by the metal above the cut for the rim clearance.  Next time I have it apart I'll take a picture, kind of an interesting way of doing things.

trotterlg wrote:It's not a problem really, just new probably, the bolt face is really flat, the bolt has a bar across the top of the face above the rim that stops it against the breach end of the barrel, there is not really a recess for the rim, the entire face of the bolt around the rim is held back by the metal above the cut for the rim clearance.  Next time I have it apart I'll take a picture, kind of an interesting way of doing things.

Don't kid yourself, ive seen dozens of these guns peen down and slam fire also the peening can cause the firing pin to stick sending it into full auto these are well  issue's , google it and see for yourself, you can start here;
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223581&highlight=doubling

Have no doubt it can be beat down, just not in 200 rounds.  Larry

one thing that should be avoided is dry firing without a cushion plug in the chamber. The top of the firing pin has a half round flat to protect the thin section that actually ignites the primer. Dry firing will cause that half round to imprint on the barrel just above the chamber. That will cause a burr to form and create jams.
 I do not know where the MG2 can be purchased, talking to Larry of Larry's Guns at Perry he thought no one is importing them anymore. Might want to save your money! I'm told they had problems. In talking to Valdemar of Pardini he said the design is very interesting but too many moving parts and they jammed often.  I have had many issues with mine, I think I solved it, I used it in the last match without one alibi. Another fix was to remove the extractor and radius the bottom edges then polish those edges on a buffer. I did this because at club practice 2 weeks ago it jammed again for no reason but after lowering it to the bench it closed before I could put my hand up. I've had this happen when letting the slide forward slow and the round entering the extractor hook. Now it does not do that and again it worked without issue this week at the club.
 I've though of building another homemade IZH, actually purchased the material but I have sooooo many projects it's one the one of these days items on the pile of things to do. Purchased a Hard Chrome plating kit, it's still in the box! I got the AW 93 thinking it was an improved IZH and wouldn't have to do anything but shoot it! Wrong though I do have the trigger feel good like on the gun I made, still not perfect but it's good. Still don't lock back reliably after the last shot and sometimes when it does the slide will go forward when putting in the next magazine.

Froneck wrote:one thing that should be avoided is dry firing without a cushion plug in the chamber. The top of the firing pin has a half round flat to protect the thin section that actually ignites the primer. Dry firing will cause that half round to imprint on the barrel just above the chamber. That will cause a burr to form and create jams.
 I do not know where the MG2 can be purchased, talking to Larry of Larry's Guns at Perry he thought no one is importing them anymore. Might want to save your money! I'm told they had problems. In talking to Valdemar of Pardini he said the design is very interesting but too many moving parts and they jammed often.  I have had many issues with mine, I think I solved it, I used it in the last match without one alibi. Another fix was to remove the extractor and radius the bottom edges then polish those edges on a buffer. I did this because at club practice 2 weeks ago it jammed again for no reason but after lowering it to the bench it closed before I could put my hand up. I've had this happen when letting the slide forward slow and the round entering the extractor hook. Now it does not do that and again it worked without issue this week at the club.
 I've though of building another homemade IZH, actually purchased the material but I have sooooo many projects it's one the one of these days items on the pile of things to do. Purchased a Hard Chrome plating kit, it's still in the box! I got the AW 93 thinking it was an improved IZH and wouldn't have to do anything but shoot it! Wrong though I do have the trigger feel good like on the gun I made, still not perfect but it's good. Still don't lock back reliably after the last shot and sometimes when it does the slide will go forward when putting in the next magazine.

Ok so my 22lr bias is confirmed, they all pretty much stink. 

If you take the time with a Nelson they are hard to beat and I have 2 that run 100% over 1000s of rounds. 

Pardini may be worth the money , but it seems like the electric ones are not worth it. 

I have had em all excluding a 208, GSP, and AW93.

The one I liked the best was the Benelli but like HS they feed off the mags and when the mags need adjusting the can make a sane person mad. 

Larry told me be Gen-3 bolts are better but I would rather try a Pardini, something about the AW93 that does not feel right for me but the IZH feels a bit better, don't know maybe its just me.

I had the 208S (well have but my son borrowed it) I have to admit the 208  shot great, if there was an alibi it was the ammo not the gun! Overall it was a great gun, accuracy was great too. If there was anything I didn't like about the 208 it would have been the trigger. It has a good trigger with some adjustment but not as adjustable as the others. The AW93 has all the adjustments but it had issues that I needed to correct to allow me to make the adjustment I wanted. The adjustment was there but the hammer would fall though not double. I don't know why but few import high end guns have the same disconnecting method, they reconnect very early and hammer falls on the slide long before it's anywhere near closed so it will not double. Simply a round in the chamber with hammer down. One stupid thing they did was to attach a heavy spring to the transfer bar that forces the first sear into the hammer. It remains engaged until re-connection so  there is quite a bit of force at the re-connection point and causes problems if adjusted so that there is no 2 stage pull and slight "roll" on second stage. Then it acts like the 1911 slam fire. If the trigger is held back or follow thru is used it's OK but if the slide is allowed to close with no finger pressure on the trigger the above also happens.
 I did have a GSP years ago, it too was a great shooting gun with very adjustable trigger. I shot some of my best scores with it. For some reason I never figured out it started having flier issues. On the bench one out of every 10 rounds fired would be well out of the group, all would be easily in the X ring while one was always in the 9 or 8 shooting from sandbag rest. I sold the gun to a Lawyer friend of mine (actually the 3 gun set) who wanted it just because it was a German Gun and didn't shoot competition. However I have a friend that has the newer GSP with an After Market barrel and it shoots great!
 I'm thinking about a Pardini, I did talk to Vladimir at Perry and may have one for the next match at Perry.
 This winter I plan to re-barrel the AW, looks easy enough. I want to put the scope on the barrel and remove the Micro from the rear.
 So far the Match Gun is working, I'll shoot another match Sunday with it.
 The AMU is using the 208, I'd probably still be shooting mine if I wasn't spoiled by the trigger on the IZH!!

Just for fun I ran some decreasing velocity ammo through mine to see what worked.  Aguila pistol match at about 900fps cycled 100%, the SK Standard plus at about 1050fps was also 100%.  The Aguila Quiet at about 710fps was only about 75% on cycling the action.  I didn't run anything over the 1,050fps so as not to beat up the action any more than I had to.  Larry

Don't use anything over 1050. Before Adam started using the homemade IZH I did shoot faster stuff. Went to the range on shoot night but forgot my ammo! Another at the club had Federal Lightning. Cheap HV stuff but claimed it shot great. I figured it was better than No ammo and shooting 50 feet indoors I gave it a try and was surprised how accurate it was at least at 50 feet! Seemed to be better than my standard velocity stuff so I purchased a brick. A few club shoots later my gun would not shoot, the hammer and first sear was badly worn. I had to make another set! The IZH does not use any springs to set the first sear, the hammer cams the first sear into location and the HV ammo was too much for it.