Camp Perry or Cardinal Center for Nationals

First topic message reminder :

The NRA shooting director has said from his inquiry's that most precision pistol (bullseye) shooters want the Nationals for our sport to stay as they are at Camp Perry, since we have the largest bullseye member base of active shooters in the country I thought he would like to see if that holds true here as well.  Easy question, If it was up to you and the Cardinal center has the full capabilities to host the venue as good or better than Camp Perry where would the 2017 and on NRA Precision Pistol Nationals be held?
Camp Perry as it has been or the new Cardinal shooting sports center, both are in Ohio.

Danehogle wrote:Well James, the design is for 300 bullseye points on four ranges. Two 50 point, 50 meter ranges. Two 100 point, 100 meter ranges. Ranges are separated by concrete walls. 
If your on Facebook, I have posted the CAD drawings and will again. 
If anyone would like to see them, email me at danehogle@yahoo.com

Projected completion date and schedule for first 2700?

AllAces wrote:

Danehogle wrote:Well James, the design is for 300 bullseye points on four ranges. Two 50 point, 50 meter ranges. Two 100 point, 100 meter ranges. Ranges are separated by concrete walls. 
If your on Facebook, I have posted the CAD drawings and will again. 
If anyone would like to see them, email me at danehogle@yahoo.com

Projected completion date and schedule for first 2700?

I also want to know when the first 2700 is scheduled. I'll be there.

Right now there are 28 cabins. Each has a bathroom, bed room, living room and  kitchenette enough to sleep 4 
What happened this year was people renting RV's and having them set up at cardinal.
The SCTP competitors had 150 RV that were rented. 
There are Mobil class rooms that have already been bought and will be turned into bunkhouses. 
Yes,  lodging will be different, that doesn't mean it can't be better

Looking at spring of next year.. 
Cardinal have been working on the range, but with the  success of the SSSF nationals and the new 10 year deal signed with OSTA, Vender building # 3 has to be under roof before snow flys.
As soon as I know..... Everyone will know...

Here is the link.. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/216804568382563/permalink/1161891947207149/

I'm glad I got to shoot at camp perry but now I'm done with the poor conditions. It is a rifle range, not a pistol range. You want to enjoy history, sign up for long gun matches

I didn't vote, because both options are about 2,400 miles from my home at any rate.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that most of the folks pressing this issue weren't around the shooting sports in 1993/1994...

Be careful what you wish for; the grass is always greener; New Mommy A Lot Prettier; those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it; etc., etc., etc.

John, are you referencing the formation of USA Shooting?
Jon

john bickar wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and guess that most of the folks pressing this issue weren't around the shooting sports in 1993/1994...

those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

John, I was 12 during that time frame, please enlighten me on what happened.

My first year at Perry was 1982, been there every year since. I have to say I enjoyed Perry and was impressed with it but each year it seems to go down hill. Only thing that was done lately was the Hut Up-Grade, they are the Ritz compared to the older WW2 POW huts yet as the years continued they weren't fit for POW! Wouldn't have taken much to have included a toilet and shower. The tent on the Assembly line was donated by small bore, if they didn't leave Perry pistol would still be assembling in the rain or hot sun.
 I will be happy to attend matches at the Cardinal Center and hope they do a good job offering the shooters what they want rather than forcing them to comply. Maybe a little competition will make Perry a better place!

Jon Eulette wrote:John, are you referencing the formation of USA Shooting?
Jon

Is the infighting not reminiscent?

I was privy to the crowd that started the whole mess. It was really quite unbelievable to witness. It changed things cataclysmically. Brought some famine to the land.
Jon

I think the infighting started when every year some speaker at the opening ceremony would mention how much money was made available to "fix" the place up. Year after year how the hut will be replaced and air conditioning added to the Mess Hall. Each year nothing changed though entry fees increased, after a few years the huts were more expensive. Then one year we were told they got 3 million dollars, somethings were done, they paved the parking area behind the range that made less area than before, added no parking areas for range officers that are always empty since they are ferried to the range via golf cart. The Split rail fence along the area from the Chapel to where the NRA building is now but no openings so shooters walking to the range had to crawl under it that eventually was removed.  Paved the road behind the ranges that offered nothing to the shooter. Finally they built the modules and we were told all the huts will be removed and modules built, nothing happened! Soon the modules were used by the volunteers. Yet the money came from Pitman Roberts a tax on firearms and ammo that is supposed to used to benefit shooters! Year after year promises continued to be made but nothing done. Winners of the match got a whopping 25 award points!
 I think the biggest change happened when Congress privatized the DCM and it is now the CMP. Every year congress would vote last minute to give the DCM money, 5 million if my memory is correct. We we told privatization will make things much better! Yeah right!!
  Is there any wonder why there is infighting???

Only 77 people have voted and there are over 2,900 registered users?  I believe there was over 670 competitors at Perry.  Does this mean very few feel strongly one way or the other?

Chip

Jon Eulette wrote:I was privy to the crowd that started the whole mess. It was really quite unbelievable to witness. It changed things cataclysmically. Brought some famine to the land.
Jon

Yup. Everything old is new again.

I fly from Hawaii to compete. I didn't vote because I have no idea what Cardinal Center has to offer. I have been to Camp Perry 5 times and have shot both rifle and pistol. Either venue would be equally bad for me due to the air travel required.

ChipEck wrote:Only 77 people have voted and there are over 2,900 registered users?  I believe there was over 670 competitors at Perry.  Does this mean very few feel strongly one way or the other?

Chip

I think its just that a lot of people don't check the forum that often.

Is there a deadline to vote? I care, but can't decide at this point. Does full capabilities to host the venue as good or better than, mean for instance covered points at both venues? 
Stan

SNaymola wrote:Is there a deadline to vote? I care, but can't decide at this point. Does full capabilities to host the venue as good or better than, mean for instance covered points at both venues? 
Stan

The only reason that Smallbore (the only one to ever have covered firing points at Perry?) had covered firing points was because they bought their own tent. They left it behind when they were moved out and as noted above it became a Readyline shelter for pistol. Don't hold your breath waiting for covered points at Perry.

Bruce

Can't believe with all the complaining about everything wrong with Camp Perry and CMP trying to rule the roost that people are not voting on this poll either way, up or down.  This is the time to make a statement one way or the other people.  Vote one way or the other, belly up to the bar and make a statement.

Camp Perry will never have covered firing points. Perry is first, a rifle range. One that is turned into a temporary pistol range for one week a year, at great expense. 
Cardinal was designed to be a permanent, covered firing point pistol complex,  consisting of 4  individual Bullseye  ranges. With a total of 300 bullseye firing points. This complex already has 14... Yes I said 14, action pistol pits with four more on the way. Some more things to note. Golf carts are allowed to the assembly line. Don't have one... Rent one. 
All  infrastructure is already there. Yes a pistol club house will be built. RV camping the likes most have never seen. Don't have an RV... Rent one. Over 1000 hotel rooms within 19 miles. And more  accommodations on site are being planned. 
 Designed by bullseye shooters, for bullseye shooters.

Allen Barnett wrote:Can't believe with all the complaining about everything wrong with Camp Perry and CMP trying to rule the roost that people are not voting on this poll either way, up or down.  This is the time to make a statement one way or the other people.  Vote one way or the other, belly up to the bar and make a statement.

I agree as you can see the NRA shooting Director is watching this poll.

My father shot at Camp Perry for the Army pistol team in the mid to late fifties, so I have longed to follow in his footsteps.  I am now 60 years old and the history of Perry means a lot to me.  As I have followed this forum now for nearly 4 years I have come to the conclusion that the history of Perry means little to me it is the history of shooting in the "National Championship Matches" that has meaning regardless of where they are shot.  I have looked at the Cardinal Center website (Google it if you want) and from what I have seen there it is obvious to me that the Cardinal Center is a class act.  If we move the Nationals there will it be the same as Perry?  Nope, it sure won't,  will it be better?  I sure there will be some growing pains but from what I can see and piece together my bet is that it will be a huge improvement over Perry.  Hell I am retired Army with over 26 years of service and if there is anybody that can screw up the process it is the military.  The best thing that could happen for us is to get away from the military.  The reason that things will never get better is that when the military is involved their mission, budget, and manpower are unknowns from year to year.  I can't make any of you vote but you owe it to yourself and the sport of Bullseye to voice your opinion.  The apathy shown here by the lack of people voting in my opinion is disgraceful to say the least.  Maybe I have overstepped the line but I really am tried of trying to be politically correct on this subject.  Just vote, one way or the other.  I sure hope you have a better attitude towards voting when it comes to November.

I doubt many will miss ankle deep mud or shooting on uneven ground at least the Nra or ong could rework the ground where people shoot to make everyone have a fair chance. In reading many posts on several forums people love Camp Perry but many hate the conditions they are forced to shoot in.

Reminds me of Sparta, Ill v. Vandalia, Ohio

Only the sport is different.