Remembering to adjust sights

by orpheoet Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:47 pm

So in the Presidents 100 I fired my first 5 rounds, looked through spotting scope, all low. I forgot to raise sights for 50 yds. Came in 107th.....Last week I did the same thing in a DR match. Same issues with dot sights. I'm curious what people do to remember. Am I the only one giving points away like this? I should mention I try to not obsess over checking my target. My best slow fires are always a surprise.

by **Wobbley** Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:07 pm

Make a procedure to adjust your sights and then leave the tool on the bench. No tool, sights are at 25. Tool on bench sights are at 50.

by Olde Pilot Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:16 pm

For the truly anal: when I was a rookie Bullseye shooter (at age 69!) I had 2 caps for my dot elevation knob. One marked "25" and one marked "50". Now, more experienced, I use the Wobbley method of screwdriver on the bench or not.

by LenV Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:09 pm

Shoe tags. I mark on them the ammo that it was sighted in with and the difference to change sights between 50 and 25. I only put the tag back on the pistol after I have returned the sights to a 50 yd zero. If it is sitting in the box without a tag or in the safe without a tag then it is still zeroed for 25 yds. I still have to remember to change sights when going from the long to short line but the tag is there to remind me how many clicks to move sights. On the 22s since there is so little change I just mark ammo that was used. My pistols all look like they have for sale stickers on them.
Remembering to adjust sights Dscf0718

by Caster3845 Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:20 pm

I use two magnets with orange stickers on them. One is marked 50 and the other is marked 25. When I adjust the sights down after CF & 45 slow fire, I stick the 25 on the slide and when I adjust up to 50 after CF RF to get ready for 45 SF, I stick the 50 on the slide. When I am done for the day, I always leave the sights set at 25 so I know to adjust up for 50 when I start a match or practice session.

by **Rob Kovach** Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

For irons, Write the number of clicks from "bottomed out" on the inside of your box for 50 yards, 25 yards, and 50 feet.

by robert84010 Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:26 pm

Seems to me that should be Step 1 of a shot plan. maybe not, I don't know.

I've seen many guns with two small dots of paint on the outside perimeter of the sight by the sight screw, usually two different colors. Then one dot on the sight screw itself.

Kind of like rifle shooting, know your zeroes and know where your sight is set before pulling the trigger.

by r_zerr Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:41 am

Many great suggestions, all about procedure/following a plan. So, trying not to be insulting, I would examine your shot plan as well and determine why it took 5 shots before you looked at your target and then realize that you had not changed the sights? Are you calling your shots?

-Ron

by LenV Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:16 am

No mater how careful you are about making sure you have your sights set it can still be wrong. Sight a pistol in at 50yds in 50 degree weather on a rainy day at 50ft of elevation then shoot it in your next match in the high desert. Call your shot and be aggressive with the sight controls. Just this year in the first match of the summer my first two shots in the 45 SF were a 10 and an X. Roddy was looking over my shoulder and watched me crank up my sights. He asked me later why I changed my sights. Simple, I called those first two shots 12 o-clock in the 8 ring. The pistol was shooting low. I shoot till I am on call then I ignore the scope. YMMV

Len

by orpheoet Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:04 am

r_zerr wrote:Many great suggestions, all about procedure/following a plan. So, trying not to be insulting, I would examine your shot plan as well and determine why it took 5 shots before you looked at your target and then realize that you had not changed the sights? Are you calling your shots?

-Ron

Lots of great suggestions. Thanks. My shot plan is point the gun at the target and try to hit the little X....But seriously this is spot on. My aiming process, stance and recovery are fairly consistent but the setting up/beginning the match process is all over the place. I typically call the first shot or 2 and check but as I mentioned I also try to avoid checking the target too much. I very rarely change the dot or the sights during a match other than the usual number up then down. I'm always a little perplexed watching shooters struggling to put 10 shots on the target but constantly making fine adjustments with their dots....However I think I've improved enough that a click here or there will raise my scores, and I should be more attentive.

by DavidR Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:24 pm

I made some labels with my dymo label maker, TURN THE DOT OFF DUMMY!
and ADJUST THE SIGHTS DUMMY! . works for me on dots and irons & Saves me money on batteries too:lol!:

by Chris Miceli Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:14 pm

I did the same after the p100 and missed my last leg points...made p100 though. I at one time left my gun in the box on 50 yards adjustments. For some reason I tried leaving them on 25 and adjusting @ the 50. So I'm going back to leaving them in the box @ 50 yard settings

by DavidR Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:36 pm

When I get ready for a match, clean guns, check things I always set my dots or sights to 50 yards, since that's where every match starts

by **Wobbley** Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:02 pm

That would be great, except I tend to practice at 25 yards more often than at 50. But to each their own.

by Sa-tevp Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:45 pm

Not wanting to shoot the short line with my long line sight adjustment (and vice versa) ever again, I lay my sight adjustment tool in my ammo box so I have to move it to get to my first five rounds of 25 yard ammo before I can load for Timed Fire at the end of Slow Fire. I set it at the end of the 25 yard ammo then to remind me as I finish up to go back to 50 yards adjustment.

Before this I tried a piece of tape over the 25 yard ammo as a reminder, but the tool is a simpler solution.

Murphy and I go back a long time and I want every advantage I can get on him. In my day job I have to investigate human factors incidences.

by Regular_Guy Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:13 pm

I have a white dot for my 50 yard setting and a red dot for the 25 yard setting, both with nail polish.

by LenV Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:00 pm

Regular_Guy wrote:I have a white dot for my 50 yard setting and a red dot for the 25 yard setting, both with nail polish.

I tried that but it didn't work well for me. There were too many variables in my shooting. I have at least 8 different types of 22 ammo. 6 different loads for the 45 and another 6 loads for the 9 and 38 super. The only load I don't mess with is for the model 52. I also don't seem to be happy with a pistol until I have tried it with every type of scope I own. I treat them a lot like "Mr. Potato Head". When I buy a new "better" scope I put it on my best pistol. Which had my previous best scope on it so it gets put on my second best pistol......I recently added a aimpoint and a sightron to the mix so more scopes got moved around. This is just a long way of saying that a permanent mark on the scope (or paint) doesn't work for everyone. Gota run. I have a bunch of pistols to sight in again. Very Happy

by CR10X Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:34 am

Lots of great suggestions. Thanks. My shot plan is point the gun at the target and try to hit the little X....But seriously this is spot on. My aiming process, stance and recovery are fairly consistent but the setting up/beginning the match process is all over the place. I typically call the first shot or 2 and check but as I mentioned I also try to avoid checking the target too much. I very rarely change the dot or the sights during a match other than the usual number up then down. I'm always a little perplexed watching shooters struggling to put 10 shots on the target but constantly making fine adjustments with their dots....However I think I've improved enough that a click here or there will raise my scores, and I should be more attentive.

Like a previous poster said, I'm not trying to be insulting on anything, just proposing another way to potentially improve.

As I was discussing with another shooter at our range, "Why do we scope the shots?" He said, "To see where the bullet went." My response was, "Possibly incorrect and definitely incomplete." Which of course was followed by a puzzled look.

On the long line, if we want to improve, we must learn to call the shots. That means calling every shot, either mentally or marking on a target on the bench. And the only way to verify the call? Unless we have Superman vision, we probably need a scope. So the purpose of scoping the shot is not to see where the bullet went, but how close the bullet ended up to where it was called. And if we can't call the shot correctly, then moving the sights based on the bullet hole is simply another random act. Any sight movement must be based on the correct call. Now, this seems to be an insurmountable problem when we are learning to shoot, and the groups are large, etc. BUT, everything revolves around calling the shot, not where the bullet winds up with respect to the center. This is important, calling the shot is not calling how close it is to the center, but how close it is to what we "thought" we saw when the gun went off. We need that positive feedback of, yep, that's exactly where it was pointed, now we just need to do that consistently to make a group. Once we can call the shots correctly and make a group, then those screws on the sight become very helpful in moving the GROUP to the center of the aiming area.

Sorry for the rambling and diverging from the original question. Simply put, I have a dots marked with colored dots for each line and open sight marked with 50 yd setting paint. The dot scopes usually have the ammo written on them with a very fine silver or black sharpie. Iron sight guns are only feed the best ammo for each so I know what the sight settings are. As for changing sights. Always start with 50 yd setting, always change when moving to the 25 (just like loading magazines before going down range), always change back to 50 when guns go in the box. Eventually it becomes a habit, and we just have to make sure something doesn't distract us from the process.

Another issue is continually changing loads and ammo, but that's a different subject.

Cecil

by orpheoet Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:48 am

CR10X, thanks. I truly appreciate insight from all members. I only shoot with other bullseye shooters during matches so most of what I know I've learned on this forum or from 6ftunda and motorcycledan who I see at local matches....

by r_zerr Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:54 pm

Cecil and Orpheat,

Cecils' explanation of scoping the shots is far better put than my short response, but that was my implied intent. Shooting is a feedback process, and without a call, and then looking, how can one know, or know to change something to improve? This is also why an accurate firearm is important to improvement, because your firearm should not be the hindering factor in making good calls.

Your procedure about where and when you set your sights is whatever works for you. It is your procedure, and your habit, but that is the key for anyone: whatever, or however you choose to do it, make it your procedure and your habit.

-Ron

by orpheoet Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:21 pm

This is pretty far off topic but the best slow fires I've shot(a 96 with .45 and red dot and a 97 with M52 indoors iron sights) were shot without checking the target because I knew the shots were good. I was surprised by how good. I suppose I need to find a happy medium or a way to accept the 7s and not obsess or repeating the x's

by **Wobbley** Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:20 pm

Best way to accept low scoring impacts is to assess the number of times your shots impact in each scoring ring. This takes a lot of shots to be valid. But the theory is that your abilities impacts the score too. Let's say out of 100 shots you earn 5X, 8 10s, 25 9s, 35 8s, 20 7s, 7 6s. In this case you're statistical "good shot" is an 8. The 7 May be as well if it just leaked, or a bad shot if it just catches the ring. that way you don't beat yourself up if you see an 8 as it is part of your dispersion pattern. This leads to better mental management.

Do you need work to improve? You betcha and soon the big groups will become small and 8s then 9s will become your poor shots.

by r_zerr Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:39 pm

Go back to Cecils explanation. It is not the value of the shot you should even consider. Your ability to call the shot is important. If the shot is where you called it, then you consider what you saw and did to make it that way, especially if it is a good shot. If the shot is not where you called it, then you need to consider what you need to do to make the shot location and your call coincide.

Once you have made all of the proper adjustments, the shot in the pistol and your process to deliver it is what you think about.

-Ron

by CR10X Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:48 pm

Sorry, to belabor this and I've got to get started cooking dinner. Since Ron, beat me to it, I'll just add this.

Again, its not how many 10's or 8's or 7's, but did I call them? To the ring and +/- an hour on the clock face? There is a difference between "I knew the shots were good" and "I called each of the shots and they were all on." Just looking to make sure I've communicated the difference between those two statements. As other's have said and I agree, find your own process. But I also continue to say, "See what you need to see to shoot a 10".

Good luck, keep training and good shooting.

CR

by jmdavis Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:54 am

orpheoet wrote:So in the Presidents 100 I fired my first 5 rounds, looked through spotting scope, all low. I forgot to raise sights for 50 yds. Came in 107th.....Last week I did the same thing in a DR match. Same issues with dot sights. I'm curious what people do to remember. Am I the only one giving points away like this? I should mention I try to not obsess over checking my target. My best slow fires are always a surprise.

You will need to add an item to your prep process of checking the sights at each yardline, or any of the other various suggestions. But you have now thought about it. If you add an item to your process, I bet that it never happens again. Or at least not so dramatically.

I have the opposite problem to a degree, checking the scope after calling the shot in slow fire is so ingrained in my shot process that it can hurt my performance sometimes.

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