Hammerli 208 or Walther SSP?

by Bullseye99 9/4/2017, 3:11 am

I have a huge dilemma which high end pistol to get for the Bullseye competitions. I have long beeen admiring the long time tried and tested Hammerli 208 and it's pedigree of winning tradition and reliability. However, it is long out of production and has been replaced and updated by Hammerli itself, until it went out of business.

Walther SSP (current production series) utilizes totally new technology and is currently being produced. I know that early versions have had their reliability issues, which have all been fixed, the many parts it utilizes and the rather complex take down procedure. I am not concerned with that. It is and engineering marvel and Walther put a lot of time, effort and money to make it as advanced and up-to-date as possible.

Living in New York, whhich conseders any gun with a magazine forward of the trigger as an "assault weapon" according to the "Safe Act" (what a load of crap!), and is therefore illegal. So Pardini, Morini, etc. is out of the question.

Would the fellow Bullseye enthusiasts please chime in with suggestions, experience and opinions.

Thank you, in advance, for your input.

by Chris Miceli 9/4/2017, 5:24 am

If you go the 208 route get the 2 stage trigger version that gives adjustment of the trigger position fore and aft. Larry's Guns services Hammerli pistols.

Never seen a SSP on the line but i'm sure someone has one out there.

by tceva 9/4/2017, 5:35 am

Doesn't the SSP have a forward Magazine?

by Chris Miceli 9/4/2017, 5:46 am

tceva wrote:Doesn't the SSP have a forward Magazine?

Top loader right at/behind the trigger.

by Guest 9/4/2017, 6:12 am

The Hammerli has the advantage of being a more traditional layout, grip angle. It will be easier to transition to the CF/45 parts of a 2700.

I'm also not sure all the bugs have been sorted. I shoot with someone who has been having doubling issues after returning the gun to Walther and months of trigger adjustments. I believe Walther even changed the trigger group with no success.

You can also have the AW93 in NYS.

by JKR 9/4/2017, 7:11 am

I have no experience with the SSP but I did shoot a FAS 602 for a number of years. The FAS also loads from the top. It was a wonderful iron sight gun and I suspect the Walther may also be. The problem is mounting a scope. I ended up putting a small dot sight ahead of the port but it caused such a change in the way the pistol felt that I never liked it. I sold the 602 to a friend but now regret it as it would be awesome for the 22 EIC matches.

Jim

by Bullseye99 9/4/2017, 8:01 am

AW93 is also an option, but I was leaning toward Walter and Hammerli.

by 1joel1 9/4/2017, 11:48 am

I have both pistols, well, the 215s. The Hammerli has a phenomenal trigger, the "s" version is 2 stage, but the SSP is also very good. The recoil characteristics on the SSP are unlike anything I have shot. The pistol just stays exactly on line. The Walther does not stay open on the last shot whereas the Hammerli does. This is good and bad, but shouldn't be a deal breaker. Both are very dependable and not ammo picky at all. Would be best for you to try them out, but I know that can be difficult. I was unable to do so, so I just bought one of each. I like them both so will likely keep both, but if you decide to resell, you should get most of your money back. The Walther might be easier to get repaired depending where you live. The Hammerli is a more traditional pistol and the grip angle is more upright.

I have owned an AW93. Good pistol, but I like the others quite a bit more.

Good Luck,

Joel

by Bullseye99 9/4/2017, 2:58 pm

Thank you for all suggestions!

by rich.tullo 9/5/2017, 8:04 pm

I have a friend that has an SSP that doubles like crazy but I suspect its user adjustment error or too much lube on the trigger group. With any gun like that I would set the trigger at #3.25 and take it down 1/4 lbs at a time to get the optimal weight. Yer Yev says too light a trigger is not good for pistol shooting so.....

GSP is popular and I would not discount that gun for BE. I have not shot the SSP but GSPs seem a little nose heavy for me and the factory grips do not fit me right. The upside is there are plenty of GSPs around and can be had for under $1000.

The only guns I like better than a good 1911 conversion with a good trigger is the 208 and the AW93 and I like the AW better. Just my opinion. In competitions at my level nothing out shoots my guns (Nelsons) on the long line. I think the above mentioned guns do buy you some points in rapid fire. But they are all 900 capable.

by ae1m 11/17/2017, 8:44 am

1joel1 wrote:I have both pistols, well, the 215s. The Hammerli has a phenomenal trigger, the "s" version is 2 stage, but the SSP is also very good. The recoil characteristics on the SSP are unlike anything I have shot. The pistol just stays exactly on line. The Walther does not stay open on the last shot whereas the Hammerli does. This is good and bad, but shouldn't be a deal breaker. Both are very dependable and not ammo picky at all. Would be best for you to try them out, but I know that can be difficult. I was unable to do so, so I just bought one of each. I like them both so will likely keep both, but if you decide to resell, you should get most of your money back. The Walther might be easier to get repaired depending where you live. The Hammerli is a more traditional pistol and the grip angle is more upright.

I have owned an AW93. Good pistol, but I like the others quite a bit more.

Good Luck,

Joel

Joel,

The reason the Walther does not stay open on last shot is so that the feel is exactly the same on all shots. The change was the "button" on the magazines. You can order the slightly larger buttons (I did) and install easily on your magazines from Walther and then the action will stay open after the last bullet. Same as the GSP Expert like I have.

Bob

by BE Mike 11/17/2017, 8:57 am

I have a Hammerli 208s. It is highly accurate and reliable with a wide range of ammunition. The grip angle is very similar to a 1911 (2/3 of a 2700). It is a good weight for scope mounting and the scope mounts are easy to mount and remove (one screw). The drawbacks are as you noted, plus magazines are expensive. One plus about the magazines is that they do last a long time and usually the magazine body wears out first and a spare magazine body might be cheaper to replace than a whole magazine.

by Tim:H11 11/17/2017, 10:39 am

I saw an SSP actually two of them at the last local match on shot. I got to hold one up. I did not shoot it. I thought it was a lot of gun in the hand and forward of the hand. Felt odd to me but I’m use the the 1911 frame - in shoot a conversion. And I shoot a 41. Neat looking gun though. I was attracted to it and interested in it’s inner workings and design.

by RThatcher 11/17/2017, 2:57 pm

As far as i am concerned the 22 is the most personal and difficult gun to get what you truly want in Bullseye. When you start out you do not know what is best for you. As you progress you figure out what your needs are, then you have to find the pistol that meets those needs. I have owned the 208, AW93, Pardini, 41, and Marvel. My only regret is that I did not get the SSP years ago..

by Chris Miceli 11/17/2017, 3:27 pm

RThatcher wrote:As far as i am concerned the 22 is the most personal and difficult gun to get what you truly want in Bullseye. When you start out you do not know what is best for you. As you progress you figure out what your needs are, then you have to find the pistol that meets those needs. I have owned the 208, AW93, Pardini, 41, and Marvel. My only regret is that I did not get the SSP years ago..

Just buy 1 of everything

by fpk 11/17/2017, 5:20 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:Just buy 1 of everything

That is so obvious now that you said it! affraid

by estuck 11/18/2017, 9:34 pm

I had the SSP, and found it to be extremely accurate. The best way to describe it is "different". Trigger is not as good as the Pardini. The problem I had with it, was it was very light. I tried extra barrel weights, but could not get used to it. Just a personal preference. I bought it from Champions Choice along with their mount. I gave it to my wife, and she loves it. mostly because of the light weight. It is a fine pistol, but I prefer my Pardini and Nelson

by 1joel1 11/19/2017, 9:34 am

ae1m wrote:
1joel1 wrote:I have both pistols, well, the 215s. The Hammerli has a phenomenal trigger, the "s" version is 2 stage, but the SSP is also very good. The recoil characteristics on the SSP are unlike anything I have shot. The pistol just stays exactly on line. The Walther does not stay open on the last shot whereas the Hammerli does. This is good and bad, but shouldn't be a deal breaker. Both are very dependable and not ammo picky at all. Would be best for you to try them out, but I know that can be difficult. I was unable to do so, so I just bought one of each. I like them both so will likely keep both, but if you decide to resell, you should get most of your money back. The Walther might be easier to get repaired depending where you live. The Hammerli is a more traditional pistol and the grip angle is more upright.

I have owned an AW93. Good pistol, but I like the others quite a bit more.

Good Luck,

Joel

Joel,

The reason the Walther does not stay open on last shot is so that the feel is exactly the same on all shots. The change was the "button" on the magazines. You can order the slightly larger buttons (I did) and install easily on your magazines from Walther and then the action will stay open after the last bullet. Same as the GSP Expert like I have.

Bob

Yes, I understand the reasoning behind the the SSP not staying open. It was weird for about 10 minutes and then I could fully understand why they did this. It feels much better and with my college education, I am able to count to 5 Smile

. I now wish all my .22s did this.

Joel

by BE Mike 11/20/2017, 8:26 am

One question I asked myself when I was considering a high end .22 pistol for bullseye pistol shooting was: What pistol are the top guns using?

by Chris Miceli 11/20/2017, 8:28 am

BE Mike wrote:One question I asked myself when I was considering a high end .22 pistol for bullseye pistol shooting was: What pistol are the top guns using?

try them all and see which you like.

by Tim:H11 11/20/2017, 8:38 am

BE Mike wrote:One question I asked myself when I was considering a high end .22 pistol for bullseye pistol shooting was: What pistol are the top guns using?

A little bit of everything. I think Jon Shue uses a conversion. Zins uses an AW93. AMU uses 208s. The best gun for you shouldn’t be the gun that most people win with - however that is a good starting point for research into what you may want. But the gun you choose should be the gun that YOU are comfortable with and it should be a gun that while using it, YOU are confident in your abilities. A gun that fits your hand, your stance, and your preferences in terms of what the gun offers the shooter. Accuracy .... they’re all pretty darn good and if you’re not pleased with it then have the barrel lined by a professional. In my experience (what little I have) the make or break for me in a 22 Pistol was how the grip and trigger felt and was set up. It mattered more to me that the gun felt right in my hand and I could shoot it with ease than who else shot it. Length of pull on the trigger and size of grip for me were some big determining factors.

by SW-52 11/20/2017, 2:59 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:
BE Mike wrote:One question I asked myself when I was considering a high end .22 pistol for bullseye pistol shooting was: What pistol are the top guns using?

A little bit of everything. I think Jon Shue uses a conversion. Zins uses an AW93. AMU uses 208s. The best gun for you shouldn’t be the gun that most people win with - however that is a good starting point for research into what you may want. But the gun you choose should be the gun that YOU are comfortable with and it should be a gun that while using it, YOU are confident in your abilities. A gun that fits your hand, your stance, and your preferences in terms of what the gun offers the shooter. Accuracy .... they’re all pretty darn good and if you’re not pleased with it then have the barrel lined by a professional. In my experience (what little I have) the make or break for me in a 22 Pistol was how the grip and trigger felt and was set up. It mattered more to me that the gun felt right in my hand and I could shoot it with ease than who else shot it. Length of pull on the trigger and size of grip for me were some big determining factors.

+1 hammerli 208s is very interesting pistol,but if you shoot great with high standard and a marvel conversion unit,go in the same road.

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