Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
+24
rich.tullo
ruger15151
mikemyers
Wobbley
bmize1
Sc0
Multiracer
JayhawkNavy02
blindshooter
jglenn21
Dr.Don
Aprilian
SmokinNJokin
Blsi2600
Bullseye_Stan
Jon Eulette
243winxb
Chris Miceli
james r chapman
fpk
robert84010
Gary Wells
cdrt
wizzer
28 posters
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Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
First topic message reminder :
I will be purchasing several custom expanders. Assuming .452" lead bullets and new brass, should we be using a .450 or .451 diameter expander? Maybe .452 on work hardened brass?
Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.
I will be purchasing several custom expanders. Assuming .452" lead bullets and new brass, should we be using a .450 or .451 diameter expander? Maybe .452 on work hardened brass?
Edit--not talking flaring of case mouth, EXPANDER for inside case diameter.
Last edited by wizzer on Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
wizzer- Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-02-07
Location : Colorado
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I use a .452 expander (the .45 colt version) on my hornady LNL with NO flare at all, I have not seen a single sliver of lead in many thousands of 200 LSWC loaded. Jacketed are slightly loose, work fine I just have to be careful not to push them down into the case too deep before crimping. Taking Jerry's advice, I could probably chuck my expander die up on a drill and remove a little bit of the nose portion so that brass provides support from possible setback. Never noticed an issue with jacketed and .472" straight (no crimp) but who knows whats happening in the gun.
Based on that, I would think a .453" or larger expander would require you to very carefully measure with jacketed rounds and adjust depth to make sure rounds can't 'fall in' during loading or be set back by recoil or chambering.
Based on that, I would think a .453" or larger expander would require you to very carefully measure with jacketed rounds and adjust depth to make sure rounds can't 'fall in' during loading or be set back by recoil or chambering.
Last edited by SmokinNJokin on Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Had a few too many, needed some clarity on the syntax)
SmokinNJokin- Posts : 851
Join date : 2015-07-27
Location : Wisconsin Rapids
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
My own testing concluded that using less than a .453 expander sized the entire body of a swaged .452 bullet. I use a Noe .453 expander and the completed round passes a push test without changing its diameter. The bullet finger-pushes into the expanded case to the lube band, the rest of the distance is tensioning the bullet.
For jacketed and plated .451 bullets, I use the .451 Noe expander.
This works for me, but as others (with more experience than me) have pointed out, reloading .45 ACP is a forgiving round.
For jacketed and plated .451 bullets, I use the .451 Noe expander.
This works for me, but as others (with more experience than me) have pointed out, reloading .45 ACP is a forgiving round.
Aprilian- Posts : 987
Join date : 2016-05-13
Location : Minnesota
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Stan: The reason that I was ask9ng about threads is that I have the Lyman "M" style expander and it is threaded to insert into the die, which is also threaded, and on the shaft, mine is .475 dia. probably for the dia. to clear the minor dia. of the thread.
I will get you the dias. of the Lyman "M" style expander, and I will probably get the hell beat out of me for saying this, but I was not happy with mine. The pitch dia of the mating threads. For med there was too much clearance between the mating threads and the slop had to be deleted by the "lockdown" nut, which when the ass'y was viewed at upside down the shaft was not concentric visually to the ID of the die body. best wishes of luck with yours.
I will get you the dias. of the Lyman "M" style expander, and I will probably get the hell beat out of me for saying this, but I was not happy with mine. The pitch dia of the mating threads. For med there was too much clearance between the mating threads and the slop had to be deleted by the "lockdown" nut, which when the ass'y was viewed at upside down the shaft was not concentric visually to the ID of the die body. best wishes of luck with yours.
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Stan:
The Lyman "M" style expander plug measures .457-.458 caliper check & .452 caliper check for the final step that goes into the bullet.The machining is better than what one would expect for for a set of reloading dies excepting the concentricity issue previously mentioned. I believe that the threads in the locknut are not co-axial with the expander plug or more than likely the sides of the locknut are not perpendicular to the locknut threads.
The Lyman "M" style expander plug measures .457-.458 caliper check & .452 caliper check for the final step that goes into the bullet.The machining is better than what one would expect for for a set of reloading dies excepting the concentricity issue previously mentioned. I believe that the threads in the locknut are not co-axial with the expander plug or more than likely the sides of the locknut are not perpendicular to the locknut threads.
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Thanks for the dimensions Gary. The Lee through powder expanders are hardened, since my M2 tool steel lathe bit only puts a bit of a polish on one. I've ordered a tool post holder for my Proxxon grinder (which appears to be lost in the Amazon Prime system) and will try that eventually. If all else fails, I'll anneal one in my Artisan 688 oven, machine it, then heat treat again. I'd prefer to just buy one. Uniquetek makes a through powder expander for the Dillon (which is planned for the future), but it seems I may need to call or email to clarify exactly what they are selling: http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582
Bullseye_Stan- Posts : 274
Join date : 2017-06-11
Location : Hampton Roads, VA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.
Dr.Don- Posts : 816
Join date : 2012-11-01
Location : Cedar Park, TX
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
My thoughts on the Lyman "M" style expander set-up:
The expander portion of the plug is a 2 piece design. the expander tip is about 3/4" long and screws into the plug body, making it easy for one to make a expander tip to any dia they wanted. The thread concentric issue could probably be reduced or eliminated with a few wraps of "teflon" tape and running the expznder die into the case before locking down the locknut. Also seems to work well as a inspection plug for case dia.
The expander portion of the plug is a 2 piece design. the expander tip is about 3/4" long and screws into the plug body, making it easy for one to make a expander tip to any dia they wanted. The thread concentric issue could probably be reduced or eliminated with a few wraps of "teflon" tape and running the expznder die into the case before locking down the locknut. Also seems to work well as a inspection plug for case dia.
Last edited by Gary Wells on Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
if any one is looking to get a NOE expander they have a 20% off sale today and Monday
code is "a641ebe4"
code is "a641ebe4"
jglenn21- Posts : 2620
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 76
Location : monroe , ga
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
What station do you have it in? I load a lot of 185 Zero's and just changed my 1050 from 9mm to .45acp I don't use a bullet feeder.Blsi2600 wrote:The NOE 456/452 is the correct setup for Zero swaged bullets. Works great on my 1050.
Thanks
blindshooter- Posts : 122
Join date : 2016-03-15
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Went back and checked my expander diameter. It's .4565/.450, it allows the cast bullet to slide to just below the grease ring. When seating, the .450 grips the base ring of the bullet and the case is crimped to .465
I like it, I'm sticking with it...
I like it, I'm sticking with it...
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping. The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet. You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly. Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.
I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die. Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.
You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com
Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html
I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die. Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.
You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com
Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html
JayhawkNavy02- Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-03-01
Age : 45
Location : San Diego
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I ordered both from Steve. I couldn't figure out the size of the Uniquetek and wanted the seater for dillon as its so easy to clean it out compared to my modified Lee seater. I think it will work better than the stock Dillon expander.JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping. The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet. You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly. Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.
I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die. Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.
You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com
Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html
blindshooter- Posts : 122
Join date : 2016-03-15
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Dr.Don wrote:Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.
Is this an offer to make a few for the membership here ?
Multiracer- Posts : 998
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
JayhawkNavy02 wrote:Steve Bathje makes seating inserts for Dillon. The cost is $30.00 each With shipping and he will combine shipping. The expander, which goes into the powder measure die opens the case up 5 - 6 thousands, or about 1/16 of an inch to avoid swaging the bullet. You can order via eBay, but he doesn't always have his products on there so I tend to email him directly. Photo from Steve showing the Dillon factory with a LSWC and his on the right.
I also use his seating insert, which is much more consistent since the shoulder vice nose is used and with Zero, who has the same profile for the 200 LSWC and 185gr LWCHP I don't have to adjust the seating die. Steve's insert is made of 303 stainless and is on the left, Dillon factory on the right in the second photo below.
You can reach him via email at: sbathj3@yahoo.com
Or his RRPMI eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html
This is the stuff I now use as well, the guy makes a fine product.
Multiracer- Posts : 998
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Steve has the .452 expander listed on Ebay. Just ordered that and other stuff, any leads on a .360 expander for a Dillon powder die?
Sc0- Posts : 316
Join date : 2013-12-30
Location : Houston, TX
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Have you tried emailing Steve directly? He makes a 38 as well
Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
JayhawkNavy02- Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-03-01
Age : 45
Location : San Diego
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Ask Steve. He didn't advertise one for .38 special but he made me one when I asked and gave him the dimensions I wanted.Sc0 wrote:Steve has the .452 expander listed on Ebay. Just ordered that and other stuff, any leads on a .360 expander for a Dillon powder die?
robert84010- Posts : 834
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Nope, not an offer. Just a suggestion to a guy who obviously had the equipment to do it himself. I don't do commercial work.Multiracer wrote:Dr.Don wrote:Toolpost grinders are a pain in the neck. Just take apiece of drill rod and make one from scratch. I make all my own Dillon expanders that way.
Is this an offer to make a few for the membership here ?
Dr.Don- Posts : 816
Join date : 2012-11-01
Location : Cedar Park, TX
Multiracer- Posts : 998
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
james:james r chapman wrote:Went back and checked my expander diameter. It's .4565/.450, it allows the cast bullet to slide to just below the grease ring. When seating, the .450 grips the base ring of the bullet and the case is crimped to .465
I like it, I'm sticking with it...
Is that Steve's standard sizing for the expander he generally sells on fleabay or was that a special order sizing
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
Gary, that's what I machined it too..
for cast bullets.
for cast bullets.
james r chapman- Admin
- Posts : 6372
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 75
Location : HELL, Michigan
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
James:
I want a Dillon "M" style funnel powder drop at .4560-.4565 by .452. I have the PPRMI one on my 5560b now but don't know what size it is.
Bls2000:
Many thanks for the info. I also reload the Magnus swaged HP.
I want a Dillon "M" style funnel powder drop at .4560-.4565 by .452. I have the PPRMI one on my 5560b now but don't know what size it is.
Bls2000:
Many thanks for the info. I also reload the Magnus swaged HP.
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I finally got around to getting my proxxon tool post holder and ground on one of the Lee through powder inserts as mentioned earlier in this thread. Here is what the final case looks like with a bullet inserted when a 0.450 expander with a 0.457 (tapered) step is used:
I'll give this a try and see how it goes. I still think the shoulder seating insert from rrmpi @ Ebay makes more of a difference than the step expansion on the brass since it squares up the bullet with respect to the brass holder.
I'll give this a try and see how it goes. I still think the shoulder seating insert from rrmpi @ Ebay makes more of a difference than the step expansion on the brass since it squares up the bullet with respect to the brass holder.
Bullseye_Stan- Posts : 274
Join date : 2017-06-11
Location : Hampton Roads, VA
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I still think the shoulder seating insert from rrmpi @ Ebay makes more of a difference than the step expansion on the brass since it squares up the bullet with respect to the brass holder.
Bullseye_Stan
Both pieces compliment each other and make our lives so much easier. Less mistakes is more time on the range.
Ron
Bullseye_Stan
Both pieces compliment each other and make our lives so much easier. Less mistakes is more time on the range.
Ron
Multiracer- Posts : 998
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio
Re: Correct diameter expander for 45 acp lead
I have them both and love both. I will probably be looking for a new Dillon "M" style powder funnel expander in the near future cut to Dr. Don's specifications.
Gary Wells- Posts : 370
Join date : 2015-09-07
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