38 Special Wadcutter Handloading Problem!

For the first time, I am handloading for my S&W K38(?) with 148 lead wadcutters.  Most of the loaded cases will not fully chamber.  I am seating the bullets slightly below the mouth with a slight crimp.  I am using a mixture of nickel-plated Winchester/RP/Federal brass.  The resized cases fit easily into the chambers. Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong.

What is the bullet outside diameter ?
Were the cases properly expanded to fit the bullet ? Are you seating and crimping in one die ?
Give us your sequence of events and measure it as you go.
Ron

Multiracer wrote:What is the bullet outside diameter ?
Were the cases properly expanded to fit the bullet ? Are you seating and crimping in one die ?
Give us your sequence of events and measure it as you go.
Ron

bullet diameter=.3585
cases belled slightly
seating and crimping with one Lyman die

Can you show us photos....close up, of your loaded rounds?

Need a side view.


But from what I can see, it looks like the expander isn’t deep enough.  I bet if you rolled the body of the case along a flat surface it wouldn’t be straight.

Where are they cases jamming?  The case aappars bulged  about halfway?

gregbenner wrote:Where are they cases jamming?  The case aappars bulged  about halfway?

The cases go in about 2/3 of the case.

Use a magic marker to determine exactly where they are rubbing on the case.


Maybe you'll need to use wadcutter brass?

S148 wrote:Use a magic marker to determine exactly where they are rubbing on the case.


Maybe you'll need to use wadcutter brass?

wadcutter brass?

Are the cases marked +P?  You definitely have the bullet bulging the case, but it sure doesn’t look excessive though....you may want to mike your loaded rounds to see where they fall on the spec chart.

Found that one chamber out of six will accept the round

Greg Walloch wrote:Are the cases marked +P?  You definitely have the bullet bulging the case, but it sure doesn’t look excessive though....you may want to mike your loaded rounds to see where they fall on the spec chart.

Yes! Did not notice that before.  Are these brass thicker than usual?

max loaded case diameter=.3815

Yes, some, if not most, will be.  They are thicker to handle the higher pressures of the +P loads.  Try non +P cases and keep us posted.

Greg Walloch wrote:Yes, some, if not most, will be.  They are thicker to handle the higher pressures of the +P loads.  Try non +P cases and keep us posted.

Great!   Thanks everybody!

Wadcutter brass is specially designed to have uniform wall thickness down to the depth where the wadcutter bullet will seat so that it will not bulge when a bullet is seated that deep.

They can often be identified by having a cannelure low on the case. See these examples of Remington Wadcutter ammo and brass and how low the cannelures are. 

https://pictures.gunauction.com/749124926/13245369/img_8107.jpg_thumbnail02.jpg

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001497212/remington-express-ammunition-38-special-148-grain-target-master-lead-wadcutter-box-of-50

If I am seeing what I think I am, and the bullet is below the rim, I see a "step" at the rim and a ridge below, which looks like it is greatly overcrimped and thus might be bulged at the case mouth.

sharkdoctor wrote:If I am seeing what I think I am, and the bullet is below the rim, I see a "step" at the rim and a ridge below, which looks like it is greatly overcrimped and thus might be bulged at the case mouth.

That is why it is tough to seat and crimp in the same die. Separate the operations and then see if they fit in a case gauge.

I had this problem loading 32 wasdutters. Over the last couple years I have identified multiple causes/cures.

Under sizing the brass (compare to the bullet ssize) can cause it, particularly if using thick or inconsistent brass (as mentioned previously). In my case, this was exacerbated if using a cast v. swaged bullet since the cast bullet was more inflexible. Fixes included 1)using only one particular brand of brass 2) using a +2 or3 resizing die (or not resizing at all) and 3) using only swaged bullets. 

I also found that over crimping can do it, although this was easier to see.

Finally, using a loaded cartridge gauge is quite handy as I can test check individual cartridges as I load.

Multiracer wrote:

sharkdoctor wrote:If I am seeing what I think I am, and the bullet is below the rim, I see a "step" at the rim and a ridge below, which looks like it is greatly overcrimped and thus might be bulged at the case mouth.

That is why it is tough to seat and crimp in the same die. Separate the operations and then see if they fit in a case gauge.

I usually use separate dies for 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP for seating and  taper crimping.  I should have realized to do the same with 38 Special for roll crimping! Thanks.

S148 wrote:Wadcutter brass is specially designed to have uniform wall thickness down to the depth where the wadcutter bullet will seat so that it will not bulge when a bullet is seated that deep.

They can often be identified by having a cannelure low on the case. See these examples of Remington Wadcutter ammo and brass and how low the cannelures are. 

https://pictures.gunauction.com/749124926/13245369/img_8107.jpg_thumbnail02.jpg

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001497212/remington-express-ammunition-38-special-148-grain-target-master-lead-wadcutter-box-of-50

Thanks.

Is it possbile to buy the brass only?

Steve,

It is pretty easy to use the same die to seat and crimp. It really helps to set for one lot of brass, as consistency is important regardless of the technique, but moreso for roll v. taper crimp.  Before you buy a new die, try this:

Size and bell case as usual.

Back off the crimp die a few turns, and adjust stem to seat the bullet where you want, but not below flush - might overexpand the case.

Back off the seating stem so it won't touch the bullet, and adjust the die to where you get the amount of crimp you desire.

Snug down the seating stem to the top of bullet - not too tightly, as that might further seat the bullet.

Except for any final tweeks, that's it.  Good luck!

steve_podleski wrote:Thanks.

Is it possbile to buy the brass only?

I don't know about new brass. You might find some used brass.

Depending on the brand, some might act like wadcutter brass even though not marked with cannelures. Maybe some folks here can offer specific examples.

Greetings,

Gun Shows are the best place to look for fired WadCutter brass.

You do need to know what you are looking for.

Some possibilities are R-P, Western, and Federal.

All of the above need to have been loaded with WadCutter bullets originally. If in doubt, move to the next table.

Something to give you a "warm and fuzzy feeling" is if the seller has a bunch of Precision Pistol shooting items on the table.

I recently measured some Fiocchi marked 38 WADCUT and these seem useful.

Another thought... Old commercial WadCutter ammo is not popular with the modern Run and Gun crowd. Sometimes you can buy up a bunch at the price it costs to reload.

Cheers,

Dave

Lee makes a factory crimp die that resizes case on the final step. I use them for my 40 cal and 44 also.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die