When do you place your finger on the trigger?

First topic message reminder :

As I am also involved in other action shooting sports, I have conditioned myself not to have my finger go into the trigger guard until I'm on target.  I am wondering if this is the same for BE.  I guess I read another thread here with a similar question but it went in a another direction. 

Is your finger on the side of the gun until your exhaling and settling on the bull, or are you on it sooner?  I think I've seen some guys working on grip position and perhaps trigger position while still on the bench.  Others I see maybe reaching for the trigger upon lifting up. 

Is there a rule/best practice/personal preference/etiquette on this?

james r chapman wrote:I think it needs to differentiate between”on the trigger” and in the trigger guard, also.

Pretty much the same thing...

Fat fingers excluded

James Hensler wrote:I would say “ How many minutes have you been doing this? Because you don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about”

Classy post.....

James Hensler wrote:

Outthere wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:I put my finger on the trigger on the bench. It never leaves the position until I reload my magazine. I use one magazine only. 
Jon

Same here. I use more than one magazine,though.

Here is why Jon and I do this. 

Have you ever sandbagged a 10 shot group and there was 2 distinct groups? If you use 1 and only 1 magazine at 50 yards it will help your groups. It’s all about consistently doing the same thing. I will also go on record that I reload my magazine after the 4th shot that way the guns own lock up is the same for 9 of the 10 rounds going down range. Hope this helps

Thanks all. 
So the three local clubs I compete at call 5 rounds in each (2) mag for SF. 
I see the NRA rule book 10.7  "Note: In slow fire events, which are scored after 10 shots, the command should be “10 SHOTS SLOW FIRE, 10 SHOTS IN 10 MINUTES, LOAD.” (The number of rounds to be loaded by the competitor in slow fire stages will be determined by the competitor.)
So some guys are loading One, others more than one, and (James is 4/6??)    What is the advantage of changing mags if 10 shots from one are allowed?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

mdlmaker wrote:After the load command I insert the magazine then hold the trigger back while releasing the slide. I then release the trigger allowing it to reset.

Interesting.  Can you explain this method a bit more?

Trigger71 wrote:

James Hensler wrote:

Outthere wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:I put my finger on the trigger on the bench. It never leaves the position until I reload my magazine. I use one magazine only. 
Jon

Same here. I use more than one magazine,though.

Here is why Jon and I do this. 

Have you ever sandbagged a 10 shot group and there was 2 distinct groups? If you use 1 and only 1 magazine at 50 yards it will help your groups. It’s all about consistently doing the same thing. I will also go on record that I reload my magazine after the 4th shot that way the guns own lock up is the same for 9 of the 10 rounds going down range. Hope this helps

Thanks all. 
So the three local clubs I compete at call 5 rounds in each (2) mag for SF. 
I see the NRA rule book 10.7  "Note: In slow fire events, which are scored after 10 shots, the command should be “10 SHOTS SLOW FIRE, 10 SHOTS IN 10 MINUTES, LOAD.” (The number of rounds to be loaded by the competitor in slow fire stages will be determined by the competitor.)
So some guys are loading One, others more than one, and (James is 4/6??)    What is the advantage of changing mags if 10 shots from one are allowed?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

No one is loading 10 round magazines in CF or 45 and most don’t even have that available for 22

I load 5 rounds in the magazine I use for 50 yards . Then after my 4th shot I reload the same magazine with 5 more. The reason is now the pistols own recoil will keep going for consistency!

Trigger71 wrote:

mdlmaker wrote:After the load command I insert the magazine then hold the trigger back while releasing the slide. I then release the trigger allowing it to reset.

Interesting.  Can you explain this method a bit more?

It’s a way to have the 1st shot in the reset. I have heard of this but never tried it

TonyH wrote:

James Hensler wrote:I would say “ How many minutes have you been doing this? Because you don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about”

Classy post.....

This is a very accurate quote. In over 30 years and lucky enough to have shot all over the world not one range Officer has ever said anything so stupid at a match. Now I can see it if you are not at a match. Like I said we are not beginners and if you ever make it to the nationals walk the line and watch. A new shooter can learn more from doing that than a years worth of practice.



The basic job a range Officer has during a match is calling hot and cold and helping with alibi issues. They do not walk up and down the line looking for safety type violations at a match. At a NRA regional in Canton Ohio there was a rash of over the berm shootings. The club announced that RSO’s would be enforcing a rule of no pistol is to be pointed over the berm at anytime. That did effect some shooters who aim high and lower the pistol into the black. This is the only time in my career that anything like this ever happened.

Trigger71:  You had a valid question that has become another totally confusing (and amusing) thread.  Old crap never dies, it just keeps on getting kicked around the pasture and smelling again.

First off, what will get you DQ in other sports may not get you DQ'd in bullseye.  But that does not mean it's a good idea.  A lot of this "opinion" on when / how to get the finger on the trigger comes from the history of bullseye gunsmithing in the old days of mil-spec sears and hammers and shooting from a controlled line at fixed targets with multiple shooters on the line.  Old habits and old wives tales take a long time to die.

If you get your grip and trigger finger set up with an unloaded gun, then removing the trigger finger outside the guard to load and until you get on the target will not be a problem or really affect your trigger finger position.  (Note my classification, so you ain't got to keep or get your finger engaged until you feel its safe to do so.)  It will also keep you consistent with your other sport which is very important.  Awareness and Consistency are the keys to safety (and finishing the match).

Now for some strongly held "opinions".

Guideline Number 1: If you want to keep shooting, you don't argue with the RO / MD. It's not your range and different ranges have different rules.  

Guideline Number 2:  The past is a different country.  They do things differently there.  

Guideline Number 3:  Just because nothing's happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.  Just because it works doesn't mean it's the best option. 

Guideline Number 4:  Doesn't matter if it's a hardware failure or a software failure, it's still a failure.

Guideline Number 5:  Life extension begins with reducing life altering variables.  Everyone's  (RO/MD/shooter) first responsibility is safety.  Nothing else takes precedence over that. 

CR

James Hensler wrote:

TonyH wrote:

James Hensler wrote:I would say “ How many minutes have you been doing this? Because you don’t have a fucking clue what you are talking about”

Classy post.....

This is a very accurate quote. In over 30 years and lucky enough to have shot all over the world not one range Officer has ever said anything so stupid at a match. Now I can see it if you are not at a match. Like I said we are not beginners and if you ever make it to the nationals walk the line and watch. A new shooter can learn more from doing that than a years worth of practice.



The basic job a range Officer has during a match is calling hot and cold and helping with alibi issues. They do not walk up and down the line looking for safety type violations at a match. At a NRA regional in Canton Ohio there was a rash of over the berm shootings. The club announced that RSO’s would be enforcing a rule of no pistol is to be pointed over the berm at anytime. That did effect some shooters who aim high and lower the pistol into the black. This is the only time in my career that anything like this ever happened.

I would suggest that one read and understand the NRA Rulebook and the duties of an RO defined therein:

11.4.1 Chief Range Officer - Will have full charge of the range and will conduct the matches on the schedule approved by the Match Director and is responsible for range safety, and for enforcing all rules.
11.5 Range Officers - Each Range Officer is an assistant to the Chief Range Officer; competitors may be assigned this duty. The Range Officer is responsible for the safety and discipline of range personnel, competitors, and spectators in the sector of the range to which assigned. The Range Officer shall supervise the scor- ing procedure and is responsible for seeing that the competitor’s equipment and position are as authorized for the particular match being fired. It is the Range Officer’s duty to be completely familiar with the program and with the National Rifle Association rules. The Range Officer is to comply to the best of his ability with all instructions issued by the Match Director or Chief Range Officer and will render all possible cooperation to other officials. He must be constantly alert, impartial in handling competitors and courte- ous though firm.


.....and btw, I do make it to the Nationals every once in a while and one or two other sanctioned matches.

I have read the rule book and I can tell you for a fact this doesn’t happen. At a NRA or CMP match the RSO’s have as little interaction as possible with shooters. When I made the statement I was talking about a local range Officer. Most are not certified by the NRA and do not have a clue what they are doing

This is my last post of this thread. 

If you want to be more consistent place your finger on the trigger and don’t remove it until a magazine change. Your choice!