Natural point of aim and grip questions

First topic message reminder :

As a new shooter, I am reading everything I can about how to shoot BE.   Recently there were links posted on a thread about "reaching master" which I read and printed out.

Last night I was doing dry fire exercises and think I stumbled across something based on a small comment in one of those articles.

As I understand it, Natural Point of Aim (NPOA) is most often used to discuss the relationship of pistol aim across the horizontal axis where stance, grip and muscle efficiency best line the barrel up in the top-to-bottom middle of the target.  If not centered, the stance is adjusted or the pistol is repositioned in the hand.  I have no problems setting up in that axis, but have been aware that my preferred grip and arm tightening yielded a situation where I would have to tip the muzzle of the gun down before settling the dot on the target (adjusting the barrel in the vertical axis).  Therefore, I couldn't be in the most "natural" position as I was constantly loosening my wrist to tip it down and the article mentioned that aiming "parallel error" would create more problems at 50yds.  The article also mentioned that, in building up the grip, after placing the gun in your shooting hand (with your non-shooting hand) you tip the wrist down before closing the grip.   As I played with this step in the grip I could get my red dot to move up and down in my preferred natural arm tensed position by adjusting where my fingers contacted the front strap. By tipping my wrist the three fingers moved down the front of the grip and I was able to get the middle bone of my middle and ring fingers evenly on the front strap so I could apply direct pressure backwards (prior grip had put the 2nd joint over the front strap).  That new grip allowed me to raise on the dry fire target and make zero wrist adjustments but yielded roughly a finger-width gap between the bottom of the trigger guard and top of my middle finger.  I mentally started thinking of this grip as giving me a NPOA in the vertical axis.  The only negative I can think of is that other articles have talked about getting the middle finger tight up against the trigger guard.

Is the concept of a "vertical NPOA" something which is commonly known but I have not yet read about it - or does it have another name?

Do you agree that my approach to building a parallel alignment of barrel to target with that adjusted grip is productive?

Thanks!

Ian

Well just too show there are always two sides to every discussion, here is B.Zins  take on all this. Look where he says NPA with a pistol is BS. his words not mine.
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/zins.htm

I'm pretty sure locking your elbow isn't the best idea with the 45 either. The bend isn't much, and might not even be noticed,  but there can be alot of stress on that locked elbow even with lighter loads. But more expeienced shooters will likely have better advice and reasonings.

OldMaster66 wrote:Did you know that this way of locking your elbow will naturally drop your wrist? Try this. With the pistol empty ( and everything else you need to do to be safe) Go into your stance and grip your pistol like you would everytime. Now rotate your entire arm clockwise (if right handed) until it almost hurts. Now, just rotate your hand back into vertical. Your elbow should be flat and locked in position. This will pull the tendons on the bottom of arm and stiffen the muscles on the top forcing the barrel down slightly. Try that. If it didn't help bring your sights closer into alignment then you don't have to send me the 2 cents for my opinion.

In my limited experience with 1 handed shooting I have been doing this way from the beginning, and it seems to be the most stable and offers the fastest reset for another shot of other methods I've tried.

I do a lot of watching the form and techniques of others, and there is an older gentlemen at one club I've shot at who has a substantial bend in his arm while he shoots. It apparently works well for him, as he usually places very high in the Expert category. A couple of great shooters stand perpendicular to the target and it almost looks like they're trying to hyper-extend their elbow inward to lock it. It clearly seems like there is no one correct way of doing grip, stance, etc.

The Zins grip of the MSH down the lifeline is uncomfortable as all get out to me, but I found that it gave me the tightest slow fire groups and highest scores at the short line by several points. It may not be comfortable, but its working for now at least.

As mentioned above, Zins claims that NPA with a pistol is baloney, and I've heard that form another double distinguished individual as well. Then again, this other guy also calls BS on a performance journal and a shot plan too.

What works for some may not work for others. Like you Tim, I've also been trying to drink everything technique related with a firehose and then try to sort out what works best for me. I'm thankful that my scores are finally starting to noticeably improve.