New Mountain Competition Beretta 92

So here is the current Beretta 92 model offered by MCP. It is a brigadier (of which he is the only importer, he sells to Wilson Combat who resells them), so has the heavy slide. The quality of machining on the new Berettas is night and day to the old 92. The slide and frame fit is so good from the factory (they are machined in Turkey now) that Dr. Nick deemed rails to be unnecessary.

The MCP upgrades include a new barrel, pins inserted into the frame to guide barrel lockup, and trigger assembly. The trigger has been moved forward to correct length of pull, and includes a shoe for slow fire. Placing the trigger finger on the bottom of the shoe by the lip results in a 3lb pull, weighing in the center will lift 4lbs. For sustained fire, the shoe is removed and curved trigger is used. Pull is an excellent medium roll.
The slow twist KKM barrel is no longer used, MCP pistols now have a walther 1:18.5 barrel machined from a blank and melonited with a cmp-legal bushing installed.

Sights are standard champion or LPA-rear, with a cylinder and slide dovetailed front. Rear sight is slightly canted to the right, this is something I have seen on several match Beretta's and I believe is due to the way the dovetail is angled on LPA and champion sights.

The pistol is excellent, the trigger in particular is one of the best I have felt. The pins guide lockup in such a way that the barrel does not touch the frame anywhere but the pins, and slide opens and closes smoothly with no resistance.

The gun also comes with a sprinco system (if you aren't familiar it is just a dual recoil spring system like the ones used in most modern semi-autos).

As far as reports of terrible customer service, my personal experience was excellent. Great communication, good conversation and an excellent product delivered as promised. I was not charged until the gun shipped. I will be purchasing more firearms from Dr. Nick. As long as you understand that Mountain Competition is his hobby, and aren't in a huge hurry to make some deadline, I think you will have a pleasant experience.


I will report on accuracy when I get some 9mm cooked up - my end of season reloading chores are in progress. As of yet I have only shot it with some mixed reloads I had laying around and the results were very favorable.

SmokinNJokin wrote:So here is the current Beretta 92 model offered by MCP. It is a brigadier (of which he is the only importer, he sells to Wilson Combat who resells them), so has the heavy slide. The quality of machining on the new Berettas is night and day to the old 92. The slide and frame fit is so good from the factory (they are machined in Turkey now) that Dr. Nick deemed rails to be unnecessary.

A couple things.

I doubt he is the only importer of Brigadier.    Buds and other high volume retailers are probably not going through MCP as a middle man.  https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13383

The quality of fit has not necessarily improved recently.  It depends on the place/location/date of manufacture.   
I've had armories of them for years.   In my view, after hundreds, is that the new stuff (non-italian) is not of the same quality.  M9A3 may be an exception.

AMU is still using KKM barrels.  I would follow their lead over MCP and twice on Sunday.

Inserts are nice to maintain the slide to frame fit as it relaxes (steels slide - aluminum frame) since the inserts can be replaced/adjusted.

I have a MCP 1911 I picked up used and immediately sent it off to be rebuilt cause it was poorly build. Glad I didn't pay retail for it. 

If you have good luck with MCP I'm glad someone is

I am glad it worked out for you and I am sure you will shoot great scores with it. My opinion of the LPA rear sight is that it doesn't hold a candle to a Bomar and you have confirmed that with saying they are not machined right.
What really gets me though is how does a gunsmith let that out of his shop with his stamp on the side, saying it's just how they come? I don't believe the gunsmiths here would say, "well that Kart barrel doesn't fit right but that is how it comes."
If the sight isn't right and cannot be fixed then don't buy it to build a pistol with, I sound like Bob Brown but I don't see why people use that sight.

I disagree on the sight quality comment, I own kensight, bo-mar and LPA and find them all to be comparable quality. I would have to remove the sight to confirm, but i believe it is the way the dovertail is cut on the beretta models that makes it sight slightly canted. As I said, I have seen the same cant on several match berettas with different brands of rear sight. Its very minor, not a big deal.

As for the frame rails, I agree they are awesome and great for keeping things tight, I use them on my 1911's. I really don't think the average bullseye shooter is going to use their Beretta enough to make it a must have upgrade. Most guys seem to break them out for CMP matches, maybe use them for the CF portion of a 2700. In general the gun is probably not going to see the kind of use a 1911 is. So Nick deemed that getting rid of the rails (a very big part of the labor in doing a match beretta) was a good way to keep costs down. Call up David Sams and see what he charges for a Beretta, and how long the wait is. Not knocking Sams, I have used him in the past, my point is that there are a couple different tiers of beretta modifications and you just have to choose how much you are willing to spend.

As for Beretta quality, I guess I have just had bad luck with the old 92's - we maintain several hundred of them in our arms room and I have had my dirty mitts on most of them, new and old, and none held a candle to this new brigadier. Again, your experience may very. The slide to frame fit on this gun is very, very good.

Bottom line, I have heard a lot of secondhand info about MCP and just wanted to post my experience, and show folks the current product since the website is so outdated. If you disagree with the manufacturing processes and Nick's choice of parts and don't like the company, thats ok - I just wanted to share the info.

Christopher Miceli wrote:I have a MCP 1911 I picked up used and immediately sent it off to be rebuilt cause it was poorly build. Glad I didn't pay retail for it. 

If you have good luck with MCP I'm glad someone is

I was talking to Nick a couple months ago and he told me a story of how he built a match 1911 for an action shooter, who immediately brought it back complaining everything was too tight. He went through several iterations of removing material until the customer was satisfied - with the gun finally leaving his shop almost as loose as an original GI (and the customer happy as a clam). This is a frustrating, and apparently semi-common occurrence - must really suck to put serious time in cutting frame rails, barrel hood, lower lugs etc. just to end up undoing it all. But the customer is always right.

I have had non-bullseye shooters handle one of my wad guns and say 'WTF is wrong with this thing?' because of how tight the lockup was - then handle my $1100 STI and say, 'yeah, thats more like it!"

Who knows, maybe you ended up with one of these guns secondhand. Maybe Nick was just having a bad day when he made it- I don't know. Sorry you ended up with a crappy gun, and I'm glad the rebuild worked out.

SmokinNJokin wrote:

Christopher Miceli wrote:I have a MCP 1911 I picked up used and immediately sent it off to be rebuilt cause it was poorly build. Glad I didn't pay retail for it. 

If you have good luck with MCP I'm glad someone is

I was talking to Nick a couple months ago and he told me a story of how he built a match 1911 for an action shooter, who immediately brought it back complaining everything was too tight. He went through several iterations of removing material until the customer was satisfied - with the gun finally leaving his shop almost as loose as an original GI (and the customer happy as a clam). This is a frustrating, and apparently semi-common occurrence - must really suck to put serious time in cutting frame rails, barrel hood, lower lugs etc. just to end up undoing it all. But the customer is always right.

I have had non-bullseye shooters handle one of my wad guns and say 'WTF is wrong with this thing?' because of how tight the lockup was - then handle my $1100 STI and say, 'yeah, thats more like it!"

Who knows, maybe you ended up with one of these guns secondhand. Maybe Nick was just having a bad day when he made it- I don't know. Sorry you ended up with a crappy gun, and I'm glad the rebuild worked out.

Doubt it, my gun came from a former MCP bullseye team shooter

Here's my experience with MCP: I called Nick about this time last year and talked to him for a long time about his product and previous reviews.  Based on our conversation I felt good enough to go ahead and get in line for one of his Beretta's.  Flash forward to the beginning of this year when it was supposed to be ready and I couldn't get him to answer a phone call or an email for the life of me, luckily I hadn't put a deposit down or that probably would've been gone.  I found a great used MCP Beretta on this forum and purchased it.  It was incredibly accurate and gave me no trouble but I found that I just liked the 1911 more so I put it back up for sale.  One gentleman who was interested contacted Dr. Nick to verify that the pistol was in fact made by him, which he had my full blessing to do as I had nothing to hide.  Dr. Nick proceeds to tell him roughly "yes that is one that I built, but you shouldn't buy it because no matter what the owner says the barrel is already shot out, KKM barrels are too soft to last even 5000 rounds and my new process means no rails to have to deal with."  In short, he wanted to sell a new product and went so far as to even trash his own previous product because he wasn't getting another cut of it.  That to me is the lowest form of low, especially for a "gunsmith" who prides himself on his own work. 

All this to say that I personally will never deal with him again but you have made that choice and at least so far, you seem to have a much better experience than I and some other people have.  You shouldn't feel the need to make excuses for him or be defensive about your purchase; if your happy with the product that was delivered that's all that matters.

SmokinNJokin wrote:I disagree on the sight quality comment, I own kensight, bo-mar and LPA and find them all to be comparable quality. I would have to remove the sight to confirm, but i believe it is the way the dovertail is cut on the beretta models that makes it sight slightly canted. As I said, I have seen the same cant on several match berettas with different brands of rear sight. Its very minor, not a big deal.

I've seen a few Colt series 70's and pre-series 70's that have a slight cant to the rear sight when installed. These were installed using the original dove tail. One has to look closely to see it and it doesn't hinder getting leg points.

BE Mike wrote:One has to look closely to see it and it doesn't hinder getting leg points.

One has to look closely at the sights to get leg points.

It does not surprise me at all that a dovetail was cut poorly on a Colt. I have heard many times from several gunsmiths that have FIXED those kind of problems, not say "well it came that way so I just passed it on to the paying customer." To me that is why a gunsmith earns his money, if all the parts were perfect anybody with a few hand tools could assemble a bullseye pistol. We don't pay gunsmiths for excuses about bad factory parts, we pay them to fix the mistakes that are inherent in manufacturing.
I've never had any dealings with the Chiropractor/hobby gunsmith but this post has told me quite a bit about his work. My gunsmith has never been a full time smith, he's an engineer with Verizon, he doesn't let stuff leave his bench crooked.

The Kidd Beretta I bought from you, Mike, has a perfectly trued rear sight. I have no idea if it was dovetailed wrong at the factory, or whatever other problems the parts had, but I do know Tony didn't let it leave his shop with a bent rear sight or any other problems.  That is all i'm saying.

I just checked out the website for MCP and I have to say 4 spelling errors on the first page doesn't fill me with a sense of attention to detail on the other end......

The MCP 1911's have a history of being re-built immediately by a reputable pistolsmith. Probably the worst high dollar pistol I've ever worked on from a pistolsmith perspective. Dr. Nick is in la la land when it comes to a 1911 based on what I've seen and what I've been told by other smiths. Great project guns!
I'd buy a new Baer way before a new MCP.
Jon

I trust you guys and your judgement, I am geniuinely wondering why Zins would use his 1911's? I have never seen or shot one, just seems weird. Wildly varying level of attention to detail?

SmokinNJokin wrote:I trust you guys and your judgement, I am geniuinely wondering why Zins would use his 1911's? I have never seen or shot one, just seems weird. Wildly varying level of attention to detail?

 
I thought Zins was sponsored by Cabot?  At least his shirt says so.

The Brigadier is a standard Beretta model that was brought back over a year ago and can be bought through any Beretta dealer. MCP is in no way a sole importer and most likely not an importer at all. I don't believe Wilson Combat is or would ever get anything from MCP. They partnered with Ernest Langdon on their Beretta customizations and he is a true expert and former Beretta employee. These wild claims that MCP makes is why they have the reputation they do. KKM switched to 18" or so twist rates over a year ago as well. Bought one from them prior to Camp Perry in 2015 and they told me over the phone it would be a newer fast twist that they are using. Still shoots as wonderful at 50 as the slow twist as far as I can tell. Just saying that twist rate is no innovation of MCP. still shoots great with the Sierra 115 bullet and the Hornady XTP.

In short, way too many false claims that are supposedly coming straight from MCP for them to be taken seriously. I just don't want people to get taken for a ride.

C-Train wrote:The Brigadier is a standard Beretta model that was brought back over a year ago and can be bought through any Beretta dealer. MCP is in no way a sole importer and most likely not an importer at all. I don't believe Wilson Combat is or would ever get anything from MCP. They partnered with Ernest Langdon on their Beretta customization and he is a true expert and former Beretta employee.

Wilson get Zero parts/pistols from MCP.  Agreed.
Not quite right on Ernest Langdon.


This is the article that you need to read to get the best gouge.  From Beretta itself. Wilson does what Wilson is good at....Marketing.
Beretta, July 2015 issue, Page 66. 

"The collaboration began with a run of 500 guns.  It wasn't expected to be more than a limited-edition program, but demand for Wilson Combat's custom 92 has changed all of this.  Wilson Combat is now building 5,000...I mean Beretta is building 5,000.  "We're shipping [Beretta] the parts, and then [the finished pistol] comes in to us." Wilson says, "We don't take it out of the box except to verify the serial number unless a customer orders deluxe action work."

"Once Wilson Combat sends Beretta components (such as the extended slide-lock lever and Wilson's steel guide rod). Beretta assembles the complete pistols and tests them for function and accuracy.  Clients can opt for its deluxe action work, which adds $110 to the price of the gun.  Shortly after Wilson decided to offer custom Beretta pistols, he contacted practical-pistol champ and armorer Ernest Langdon, who trained four of Wilson's staff to work on 92 actions."



Wilson Beretta Accuracy



Stock Beretta M9A3 Accuracy

MCP built 4 pistols for its own team back in the 90's. None were used by the team members; they didn't shoot! 4 of top shooters in the nation didn't use them! 
Jon

Sooo.. Anyone want to buy a lightly used MCP Beretta? 
Just kidding.

I'm only bashing on his 1911's! :l)
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:I'm only bashing on his 1911's! :l)
Jon

I have a friend I shoot with that has MCP 1911.  I'ts a very pretty gun.  Very early serial number, I think it's 2!  very rarely shoots it because it will not function.  Looks nice though.

Scott

I was speaking with another pistolsmith and he told me he repaired a mcp pistol that was brand new and mcp wouldn't take it back to repair it because it wouldn't function. That sucks!
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:I was speaking with another pistolsmith and he told me he repaired a mcp pistol that was brand new and mcp wouldn't take it back to repair it because it wouldn't function. That sucks!
Jon

hey, i'm sure it's just the magazines because that is how they come. 

I suppose he is a gunsmith, not a magazinesmith.

robert84010 wrote:It does not surprise me at all that a dovetail was cut poorly on a Colt. I have heard many times from several gunsmiths that have FIXED those kind of problems, not say "well it came that way so I just passed it on to the paying customer." To me that is why a gunsmith earns his money, if all the parts were perfect anybody with a few hand tools could assemble a bullseye pistol. We don't pay gunsmiths for excuses about bad factory parts, we pay them to fix the mistakes that are inherent in manufacturing.
I've never had any dealings with the Chiropractor/hobby gunsmith but this post has told me quite a bit about his work. My gunsmith has never been a full time smith, he's an engineer with Verizon, he doesn't let stuff leave his bench crooked.

The Kidd Beretta I bought from you, Mike, has a perfectly trued rear sight. I have no idea if it was dovetailed wrong at the factory, or whatever other problems the parts had, but I do know Tony didn't let it leave his shop with a bent rear sight or any other problems.  That is all i'm saying.

I know. Tony did outstanding work. I was on Mike Curtis' waiting list for a wad gun and when Mike quit private gunsmithing he recommended Tony and said that, "He is the best machinist I've ever seen!" The wad gun I got from Tony was quality work. I do have a series 70 Colt "Clark" hardball gun that has a tilted rear sight. I went distinguished with it. Actually, when I was actively shooting, I never noticed it. I guess I was focusing on the FRONT sight!
BTW, I wasn't defending MCP or slopping pistolsmithing. I was just stating a fact. Enjoy the Kidd gun, they don't make 'em like that anymore!

Jon Eulette wrote:The MCP 1911's have a history of being re-built immediately by a reputable pistolsmith. Probably the worst high dollar pistol I've ever worked on from a pistolsmith perspective. Dr. Nick is in la la land when it comes to a 1911 based on what I've seen and what I've been told by other smiths. Great project guns!
I'd buy a new Baer way before a new MCP.
Jon

I am one of those individuals who had his MCP 1911 re-done my a reputable pistolsmith.