New Mountain Competition Beretta 92

First topic message reminder :

So here is the current Beretta 92 model offered by MCP. It is a brigadier (of which he is the only importer, he sells to Wilson Combat who resells them), so has the heavy slide. The quality of machining on the new Berettas is night and day to the old 92. The slide and frame fit is so good from the factory (they are machined in Turkey now) that Dr. Nick deemed rails to be unnecessary.

The MCP upgrades include a new barrel, pins inserted into the frame to guide barrel lockup, and trigger assembly. The trigger has been moved forward to correct length of pull, and includes a shoe for slow fire. Placing the trigger finger on the bottom of the shoe by the lip results in a 3lb pull, weighing in the center will lift 4lbs. For sustained fire, the shoe is removed and curved trigger is used. Pull is an excellent medium roll.
The slow twist KKM barrel is no longer used, MCP pistols now have a walther 1:18.5 barrel machined from a blank and melonited with a cmp-legal bushing installed.

Sights are standard champion or LPA-rear, with a cylinder and slide dovetailed front. Rear sight is slightly canted to the right, this is something I have seen on several match Beretta's and I believe is due to the way the dovetail is angled on LPA and champion sights.

The pistol is excellent, the trigger in particular is one of the best I have felt. The pins guide lockup in such a way that the barrel does not touch the frame anywhere but the pins, and slide opens and closes smoothly with no resistance.

The gun also comes with a sprinco system (if you aren't familiar it is just a dual recoil spring system like the ones used in most modern semi-autos).

As far as reports of terrible customer service, my personal experience was excellent. Great communication, good conversation and an excellent product delivered as promised. I was not charged until the gun shipped. I will be purchasing more firearms from Dr. Nick. As long as you understand that Mountain Competition is his hobby, and aren't in a huge hurry to make some deadline, I think you will have a pleasant experience.


I will report on accuracy when I get some 9mm cooked up - my end of season reloading chores are in progress. As of yet I have only shot it with some mixed reloads I had laying around and the results were very favorable.

Hi Have met and talked to Dr. Nick quite often. Years ago he attempted to make a great pistol match and paid for the winning guns (quite a few) out of his pocket.(Out of the box before he started MCP) Trophies that were the best money can buy, not plastic but cast bronze came out of his pocket. Few hundred shooters including the AMU and Marine teams were there. Lasted only a few years, it was a great match!  I'm told it was the club that continued wanting more money that ended the match! They got all the entry fees and wanted more! Dr. Nick paid for all the awards! Quite honestly Dr. Nick is a really nice guy!!! BUT!!!!! He is not a gun smith, I know of one top smith that will not even work on an MCP because they are so bad! I have met people that got his guns that would not even group in the black shooting off sandbags at 25 yards! Another that got a MCP 1911 for the ECI match that would not keep them in the 8 ring at 25 yards fired in a Ransom rest!!! Simply put MCP guns are junk!

my experience with MCP: Several years ago, I decided I wanted to try a Beretta hardball gun, I've been distinguished for 20 years, but I still love shooting hardball matches. First I unsuccessfully begged Tony Kidd to build me one as Mike Curtis said that he was the guy to go to. Around that time Dr Nick's name surfaced and Brian Zins' response to my email confirmed his confidence in Dr Nick as a gunsmith. I called Dr Nick and had several very long conversations with him, ending with me ordering an MCP Beretta Hardball gun. My initial impression was that he was either one of the most experienced gunsmith/machinists I had ever talked to, or the biggest bullshitter I'd ever known. The latter was confirmed when I received the pistol - no test targets of course, because it was never fired after assembly, as the barrel was never finish chambered and would not chamber a factory round. I sent the gun back and received it back two months later with a couple of 2 ounce bottles of oil added for my trouble. I sold the gun shortly after, considering myself lucky I got the majority of my money back. 
Walt

I sure am glad this discussion came up. I have been thinking of ordering a wad gun from MCP. I will not give MCP another thought. Whew, dodged that bullet!

messenger wrote:I sure am glad this discussion came up. I have been thinking of ordering a wad gun from MCP. I will not give MCP another thought. Whew, dodged that bullet!

A used one can be a good deal.  Knowing it has to be redone.  Or one that has been rebuild is a good deal if the price is right.

Here is mine after a Eulette rebuild.


KC has recently rebuilt one for one of his customers

messenger wrote:I sure am glad this discussion came up. I have been thinking of ordering a wad gun from MCP. I will not give MCP another thought. Whew, dodged that bullet!

MCP were STI parts which are quality components.  Im sure the new one still use STI parts.

MCP are good parts guns since they do or did have quality parts. A good smith like KC or Jon can rebuild them if one can be found at a great price. They are parts only guns! I feel sorry for the guys that paid top dollar for a MCP gun thinking they were getting a tack driver and got a shot gun!

Froneck wrote: I feel sorry for the guys that paid top dollar for a MCP gun thinking they were getting a tack driver and got a shot gun!

Your condolences are sincerely appreciated.

joy2shoot wrote:

Froneck wrote: I feel sorry for the guys that paid top dollar for a MCP gun thinking they were getting a tack driver and got a shot gun!

Your condolences are sincerely appreciated.

Never handled his beretta maybe they are better then his 1911.  David SAMs has a wait list for his beretta for a reason.  But smiths have made them accurate without the rails. KC, Salyer, Toyota come to mind

I'm not a Beretta guy. I was stationed at AMU when Sams was R&Ding the Beretta. I remember talking to him and looking at the guns he was building. Those frame rails are a lot of work. In my opinion it only matters from a machine rest. From hand they are nearly equals if built right. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the poor man's Beretta if I was a Beretta guy
Jon

Thought the MCP's Beretta largest selling point were the rails that Dr Nick developed?  Custom fabricated and easy to replace by the user when worn out, etc.  Any pictures of these custom pins that are installed?  I am guessing that the owners of the rail equipped Beretta's might be screwed if replacement inserts are needed?  (accurail type)

I missed out on the MCP Beretta that was sold here a few months back, but did pick up a SCG Beretta afterwards.  It's not a 1911 but it has a much better trigger than a Glock.

Heres a picture of the rollers that guide barrel lockup. Best I can tell, they do not actually touch the barrel when slide is in battery, just guide it during opening and closing.

Neat!

I'm not sure about the current quality of the MCP 9mm, I know when he first started making them and sponsored a team of top shooters to shoot in the ball match at Perry they were near the AMU trailer kinda grumbling, I asked why they were not happy. Dr. Nick wanted them to use his guns in the team match, I said so?? They Don't Shoot was the reply! Maybe over the years he got better but I know of a current build 1911 that will not shoot from the day it was received! If it were me that wanted a 9mm (I don't shoot it) I certainly will not get one from someone that has a bad reputation building the 1911!!! I'm sure every smith has a gun over the many he's made that has a problem but know of none that will not do everything to make it better. They are tested before being shipped yet there might be something that changed though being that in most cases it's the owners error. One would think MCP would do the same!

I should re-name this thread "why not to buy an MCP 1911"

For anyone who is curious, the gun shot 124 jhp into a 2.7" group on Dave Sam's HEG rest. 115's would not group at all, 5-6" or worse. The 1:18 seems to favor heavier bullets. Before I bought, I asked the Dr. what size groups it would shoot on the long line. He didn't give me a size he just said good enough for high 80s but that I should clean on the short line. I just can't get a good grip on the thing to shoot it on the short line so it's a nice collector piece.

So he's happy selling custom Beretta's that will score no better than the high 80's?? That's not saying a whole lot about your product. Seems like a off the shelf 9mm RO should do that or better.

Like I said it shot a 2.7" inch group, that's Well within the 10 ring.  If you get a stock range officer that will shoot that kind of group, you are extremely lucky.  I think 4 to 5 inches would be more realistic. What I said was he made no claim as to group size. For 99% of us the limitation on the long line is going to be the shooter not the gun. Hi 80s are extremely respectable scores for a ball gun.

Just to reiterate this thread is to reflect my personal experience with MCP and to show pictures and actual evidence of what product someone is getting when they buy an MCP Beretta. It is not an invitation to share a secondhand complaints about the company. I don't doubt your experiences, I have had issues as well, but unless you have technical information to share about his current build Berettas please take it to another thread.

zanemoseley wrote:So he's happy selling custom Beretta's that will score no better than the high 80's?? That's not saying a whole lot about your product. Seems like a off the shelf 9mm RO should do that or better.

Seems like they should but all the reports here and what my gunsmith witnessed is that the stock 9mm RO's test worse than the stock .45 RO. Plus 9mm just seems to be harder to shoot in the middle.

Jon Eulette wrote:I'm not a Beretta guy. I was stationed at AMU when Sams was R&Ding the Beretta. I remember talking to him and looking at the guns he was building. Those frame rails are a lot of work. In my opinion it only matters from a machine rest. From hand they are nearly equals if built right. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the poor man's Beretta if I was a Beretta guy
Jon

I looked at a Sam's Beretta this year on vendor row. It must've been a newer one because it had like these steel shoes installed on the frame that the slide rides on. I guess he doesn't do the Accu-rail style anymore. But yeah it looks super labor-intensive. That's what Dr Nick said when I asked him about rails, he said it's a waste of time on a ball gun for most folks because they shoot them so little and the gains from rails are so minuscule.

I had an MCP Beretta with the rails that Ransom Rested 2-5/8 at 50 yds (10 shots). Have a Dave Salyer Beretta that will do the same.
Either is way better than I am.

I have a MCP Beretta. It's been a little bit of an ordeal, but it shoots well.


There were delays to delivery from when I ordered it, but I figure that's par for the course when ordering a custom gun from anywhere.

Dr Nick is not real good at returning phone calls. But once you get him on the phone he's willing to talk forever about the guns, reloading, etc.


Problem #1 - At the first match I shot it in, maybe the 10th or 15th time I'd shot it at all, the front sight came off. I was shooting a timed fire string, gun settled, and I couldn't find the front sight. Because it was gone.  It just came off. Couldn't find it in the grass. Called Dr Nick, told him what happened, overnighted the slide to him, he fixed it, overnighted it back to me. 3 day turnaround.

Problem #2 - Newly replaced front sight was ever so slightly canted. Didn't matter for accuracy or aiming, but it tickled my brain and I couldn't stop thinking about it. Eventually sent it back and he fixed it. Turnaround was quite a bit slower this time. But it's good now.

No charge for the work, he was very professional about it. Have to admit I'm a little disappointed that it had to be done at all, but things happen. No big deal.


As for accuracy - I recently bought a Ransom Rest. Here's the 10-shot group I got with some factory 147 XTPs ... it's a B-8 target because that's what I had on me that day, but this was at 50 yards.

Overall group is about 2.5", with 7 of the 10 shots in a tight sub-1" cluster. As I said the Ransom Rest is new to me, and there's definitely a learning curve to it. Not idiot proof at all. I'm not one to cherrypick groups and ignore "fliers" but there's an art to using the RR that I haven't perfected yet. I think in fairness it's probably better than a 2.5" @ 50y gun. It'll clearly hold the 10 ring and may well be pushing X ring capabilities.

Someday I'll be able to hold the 10 ring too. 




This is the first (and only) custom target pistol I've ever purchased. I've read some of the MCP disappointment stories on the internet, and I have to admit that I was worried during the front sight shenanigans that I'd gotten a lemon, but it turned out to be what I had hoped for and wanted.

Thanks for the thorough review. I had wondered about accuracy with 147, never got around to trying them.

zanemoseley wrote:So he's happy selling custom Beretta's that will score no better than the high 80's?? That's not saying a whole lot about your product. Seems like a off the shelf 9mm RO should do that or better.

Beretta claims their guns will shoot 3 inches at 50 yards from the factory, but I'm not sure if that's been independently tested.  

I just stumbled across this incredibly interesting thread in my quest for a 9mm EIC ball gun.  So, who is the "go to" gunsmith for a Beretta-build?

Also, I must thank all of you who participated in this thread.  I was literally getting ready to call MCP to order a Beretta bullseye gun.  No kidding.  Fortunately, I chose to browse this forum first.

I highly recommend that you do not buy a NEW Beretta, as there are a lot of them floating around lightly used at a significant discount (and no wait time). Put up a want add on the forum and I am pretty sure you will have a nice one in your hands for a reasonable price in no time. Beats paying $2-3,000 and having to wait many months.