147gn Brazos 9mm N310

I loaded up some 3.1gn COL1.11 am I pushing it? 

I wanted to try it just anyway after I saw my mistake. 

Typical N310 147 loads are published for HAP which load short and have a high pressure using most powders.

N310 is really a 45 powder.
N320 is a 9mm powder and is very good for that.
N310 is a little fast for 9mm due to the weight of the bullet being lighter. When I was using N320 and 147 bullets I was loading at 3.5, but that was to make power factor. We don't worry about that here. At 3.1gn your just about there.
Long story short, I'd pull the bullet or just put them away and not shot them.

That was I was thinking, pull them and drop to 2.8. Also by mistake I loaded them with 3.4 W231 and got a tiny bit of pressure signs but they did not group. Lower then 3.2 would not cycle or group. 

If 2.8 cycles that would be the way to go it is out of a 5 inch PPQ. The barrel is supported and I think I can get away with pushing it harder just to test but you confirmed my initial thoughts because in my barrel 1.13 just does not cycle and I have to go 1.11 to cycle. 

So far 125gn RMR conical seems to be the most accurate. But I think I am going to go 125gn RN because it seems like the body of data on that bullet is pretty wide spread.

The 147gn bullet will shoot softer than the 125.
However, if 125 is more accurate that's the one to use.

Depends on barrel twist. The 147 Brazos shoot real well (and soft) in my 1:10 twist barrels (Sig and CZ).

Re bullet weight, the 147 is heavier for bore diameter (sectional density) than a 230gr 45. I think, in general, heavier bullets do better with slower powders.

I also think (wild speculation really) that the 9mm needs more pressure to get a good case seal in the chamber. The double taper in the walls, combined with the smaller diameter, makes it a stronger and stiffer pressure vessel.

My very limited experience with cast bullets in a 929, have so far shown horrible leading issues. It has a .357 bore and so far I've only tried .356 bullets in it with powder puff loads. The idea of case seal is based on the amount of crud that winds up at the back of the frame from leaking back thru the chambers.

I've got .358's, and the dies to build them 'correctly'. Just need time to get thru the lack of range access to see if it helps at all. The filth I can live with, but the leading has to go. Or, something gets done with the gun to make it 'useful'. I have no interest in an 8 shot 9mm revolver for jacketed bullets only.

tovaert wrote:Depends on barrel twist. The 147 Brazos shoot real well (and soft) in my 1:10 twist barrels (Sig and CZ).

What COL are you loading to? 1.11 Seems right but 1.13 will not feed in my PPQ.

I agree with tovaert - barrel twist is an important point.

My SIG 210-A with 1:10 barrel much prefers 147 bullets. I have settled on 4.3 of Power Pistol under 147JHP bullets (Hornady XTP or Zero) and COAL ~1.13. Quite accurate with soft'ish recoil at ~920fps.

My 1911 9mm with a 1:32 KKM barrel does not like those 147 loads - it only works well with 115 bullet at ~1,100fps. I find that these loads produce a very snappy recoil and are hard to shoot well for Bullseye - YMMV.

P210A: 3.2 gr of Alliant e^3, 1.160" OAL, Brazos 147 gr coated RN bullet, Starline brass, Fed. 100 primers, 16# CZ P-01 recoil spring ---> 941 fps. 

CZ SP-01...everything similar except I have to seat them deeper 1.120" OAL (the P210A's barrel has a bit longer freebore than the CZ). If you load a 147 Brazos too long you can have feeding problems in a SP-01. I loaded up 1K of these for my SP-01 which my Dad uses for steel plate shoots. Bench tested them at 25 yards, but no more than that at this point.  

With a 147 XTP I increase it to about 3.3 gr, seated to 1.100" OAL. This is an accurate load in the P210A. I have to work more on my 147 Zeros; that same load does not shoot as well. I really like the 147 XTP bullets, but they are pricey.  

I think e^3 tops the leaderboard in burn rate, my thinking is that pressure builds quickly behind that heavy bullet (better seal) but it's still soft shooting and accurate, without pounding brass or primer pockets. 

YMMV...but I've tested the 147/e^3 combo in the 3.2 to 3.4 gr range and it's a good combo. Usually easy to find too (and cheap).

The only slower powder I could get was W231 and the Brazos hated that in my gun. My gun really like the RMR Match winner, I loaded them with W231 3.2 and would not cycle but held the 25 yard x ring.  I loaded up some at 3.6 and 4.0 (which people tell me is the accurate load. I like the idea of 147s as a short line load but so far 125 are more accurate.

To Wes G, an undersize bullet will lead badly. The other key, in my experience, is to a se the right expander plug. Most die sets come with one that is ok for jacketed but swages a lead bullet....gets leading.

The kkm 1:32 needs a light fast bullet

It leaded heavily with .356 bullets. Filled the compensator ;-) That's when I checked the bore diameter.

I tried a .38 expander, but they're too long and bulge the case before you can get anywhere near flaring it. So I made one to the 38 diameters (Redding gold, .356/.359) but 9mm length. And then I found the seating die was swaging it back down. Backed that off, and got a 38 super taper crimp die, which had to be shortened, and bored for case clearance at the base. Good to go. Maybe. If I could get to a range ...

In the mean time, got a 9mm HTC expander from Photoescape. That should be better yet.

All else fails, I make a 38 Special cylinder for this thing. Or sleeve the barrel and make it a 327.

WesG wrote:It leaded heavily with .356 bullets. Filled the compensator ;-) That's when I checked the bore diameter.

I tried a .38 expander, but they're too long and bulge the case before you can get anywhere near flaring it. So I made one to the 38 diameters (Redding gold, .356/.359) but 9mm length. And then I found the seating die was swaging it back down. Backed that off, and got a 38 super taper crimp die, which had to be shortened, and bored for case clearance at the base. Good to go. Maybe. If I could get to a range ...

In the mean time, got a 9mm HTC expander from Photoescape. That should be better yet.

All else fails, I make a 38 Special cylinder for this thing. Or sleeve the barrel and make it a 327.

Interesting Ideas but too much work, I think I am going to try round nose if I cannot get RMR Match winners in 147gn.

The Vihtavuori app actually shows a load for N-310 and 147 gr X-Treme Bullets RN’s with a range of 2.3-2.8 gr.

I’ll stick with N-320 for 9’s.

apipeguy wrote:The Vihtavuori app actually shows a load for N-310 and 147 gr X-Treme Bullets RN’s with a range of 2.3-2.8 gr.

I’ll stick with N-320 for 9’s.

Yes for some reason I went with 3.1 but then pulled them loaded them to 2.8 with a 1.11 coal. Still had one feeding issue but no pressure signs to worry about. The ammo was not very accurate but shot nice and soft. Today I Loaded them slightly short 1.09 and dropped to 2.6gn. I will see how they work tonight. 

I think 9mm company data assume Glocks and unsupported barrels where as the PPQ barrel has plenty of support but I am a little adverse to taking reloading risks. 

If they do not work out I will give up the ghost on 147 and go with 125gn RN and work on some W231 loads.

N310 is touchy.  Vihtavouri dropped any listings of that powder in 38 Special with 148 wadcutters for several years.  When they did list it years ago it went from standard pressure to “+P” within a couple of tenths of a grain.  Bad juju for autoloaders.  I would expect the same touchiness with 9mm loads.

For the short line I'm using N310 at 2.8 gr. with an Acme 147 gr. coated flat point bullet.  This shoots well in my PPQ M5 Match SF for sustained fire.

I have had excellent results with 2.5 gr of N310 and a 147 gr XTP. It does require a lighter recoil spring in my Beretta (a 10# or 11# work). I worked up that load specifically for low recoil, soft shooting when I was healing from an elbow injury. It actually turned out to be very accurate at both 25 and 50 yards.

Quickload predictions do get pressure spiky pretty quickly once you get past 3.0 gr. I think it's a fine powder for light loads. Theoretically N310 and 147s are the ideal combo for 9 mm powder puff load - fast powder, heavy-for-caliber bullet.

If you're going to load warm 9 mm loads, I wouldn't use N310. N320 is a better choice.

pgg wrote:I have had excellent results with 2.5 gr of N310 and a 147 gr XTP. It does require a lighter recoil spring in my Beretta (a 10# or 11# work). I worked up that load specifically for low recoil, soft shooting when I was healing from an elbow injury. It actually turned out to be very accurate at both 25 and 50 yards.

Quickload predictions do get pressure spiky pretty quickly once you get past 3.0 gr. I think it's a fine powder for light loads. Theoretically N310 and 147s are the ideal combo for 9 mm powder puff load - fast powder, heavy-for-caliber bullet.

If you're going to load warm 9 mm loads, I wouldn't use N310. N320 is a better choice.

My gun hated the Brazos, I am going to try RMR 147's I have a few to try they are not making them now, But I have enough to test, they look similar to HAP but without the hollow point. I loaded them at 2.7 which should be enough to cycle my PPQ yet mild.

I am pretty much done with 147gn, 

I tried 124gn RMR Match winner COL 1.07 over 4.2 W231 and that was by far the most accurate load yet not very soft but it holds the x ring at 25 yards. 

Walther PPQ stock 5 inch 1:10 barrel

3.8gn cycled by gun fine and was soft but not as accurate.