New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

First topic message reminder :

Due to the High Power matches being moved from Camp Perry to Camp Atterbury, IN, the pistol dates will change. The championship will now be held July 9-14, 2017.

Denny

From Orest Michaels in 2010. 

"The CMP established an endowment fund in 1996 and all revenues not needed to support current operations and programs have been placed in the endowment fund since then. Contributions may be made to: CMP; 1470 Sentinel Drive; Anniston AL 36207. Just write "donation" on the check. 

Many people already donate directly or through employer donation drives and other national donation drives such as United way. All donations are tax deductible since we are a 501(c)(3). "




If donations can be specified to support competitive shooting and youth programs that would be even better.

Not alot of details. But it does note a commitment to the 2017 dates. 

http://thecmp.org/cmp-announces-new-programs-for-2018-national-matches/

Friends, this isn't quite what you are making it out to be.  Here are the facts surrounding the move.  It's not much different than members of this forum proposing a move from Camp Perry as well.


In January 2016 at the SHOT Show, CMP advised the NRA that they wished to go our separate ways and each conduct and pay their own expenses.  This was reiterated in a follow up email.  It appeared as though the triad of NRA/CMP/OHNG was ending.


In early 2016, the 2017 calendar was developed and published.  However, at the National Matches in 2016, CMP came to me and advised that the calendar was no longer workable for them and a new one must be created.  The current calendar worked fine for us but that was not their concern.  A new calendar was created and agreed to by all 3 parties.  However, we later learned that the calendar was problematic due to housing shortages over the July 4th week.  Even CMP said that they didn't see that one coming.  However, at a meeting in April they were not inclined to discuss changing the calendar because, according to Mark Johnson, the current calendar has been "reported to the world."


Also during the 2016 National Matches we began getting lots of complaints from High Power competitors about the condition of the new firing line berms and the fact that their creation negated shooting at 500 yards.  The Vice-Chairman of the High Power Committee was onsite and received the complaints first hand.  Both staff and competitors began saying it was time to move from Camp Perry.


An evaluation process was begun with 4 ranges under consideration; Camp Perry (we could remain there), Camp Atterbury, IN; Ben Avery in Phoenix, and NRA Whittington Center in Raton, NM.  Information was compiled on all ranges on numerous topics.


The High Power Committee has 10 members and all are active competitors, save one.  At it's meeting two questions needed to be answered; 1) Should the National Matches be moved from Camp Perry?, and 2) if yes, where should they move to?


A presentation was made to the committee comparing all of the ranges.  The meeting lasted all day and much deliberation was had on all of the topics.  In the end, the committee determined that the current calendar was a detriment to NRA High Power competitive shooting and the matches should move.  Further, the matches should move to Camp Atterbury, Indiana.


With the High Power events now removed from the Camp Perry calendar, we were able to move the Pistol dates to the proposed dates on the original 2017 calendar as published in 2016.  This would also enable clubs and State Associations to return to their normal pre-National Matches calendars, and Canton has already inquired about doing so.


So, in the end, with an unworkable calendar before them, the committee determined that moving was better than staying - and they could have stayed if they deemed it worth while. 


Unlike others, the NRA is not seeking to blame or find fault with anyone.  The committee simply reacted to an untenable situation that that action was in agreement with lots of competitors.


We have received both complaints and praise for the actions taken, which is to be expected.


Since the very topic of moving Pistol has been bantered about on this forum, how is that many are finding fault when the very process that was followed would be the process followed should it be decided that you too needed to move?

The problem is changing the dates 7 months out. If this was for 2018, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The problem is also the separation between the events. July 1-2 vs. July 9-13. Moving rifle this year was a problem in my opinion. Moving the pistol dates was more of a problem.

That's it. I'm letting my money do the talking.  I'm canceling my housing reservations for 2017 Perry. I will return to the National Matches if and when the whining, wobbling and squealing ends and we have firm dates and location, hopefully in 2018. There are lots of other good matches like Canton, Lobster Match and state championships where I can spend my money.

I will shoot Canton, spend a few days exploring the history around Lake Erie and then Shoot CMP Pistol. I will then go home and work for 2 weeks before coming back for P100, NTI and Hearst DOubles. It's a lot of driving and I would have really liked to shoot NRA pistol again. But that option was removed by the date change. 

Of course what's one Marksman in the grand scheme of things.

jmdavis wrote:I will shoot Canton, spend a few days exploring the history around Lake Erie and then Shoot CMP Pistol. I will then go home and work for 2 weeks before coming back for P100, NTI and Hearst DOubles. It's a lot of driving and I would have really liked to shoot NRA pistol again. But that option was removed by the date change. 

Of course what's one Marksman in the grand scheme of things.

Strange, since you can go from Canton straight to the NRA matches at Camp Perry, just you have always done for the last 40 years.

How can I do that when Canton is June 23-25 and  you moved NRA Pistol to July 9-14?

https://www.cantonmckinleyriflepistol.org/regional_info/default.html

from the page headline:

Canton-McKinley Regional Information - 2017 Regional - June 23-25, 2017

I'm pro moving national away from camp perry.

I'm still all twisted up. Going by the CMP calendar pistol is June 26-july 1.

So, is NRA now July 9-14, and CMP only July 1-2?

Will their be CMP precision pistol matches June 26-JUNE 30?

I have only thru November to designate vacation and I've already arranged lodging.

james r chapman wrote:
So, is NRA now July 9-14, and CMP only July 1-2?

That is how I read it.

Just this evening I received an email (probably the same email many of you also received) from CMP with a link to the following 2017 FINAL dates for Camp Perry: http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017NMCalendar.pdf

June 26 Harry Reeves; DR; Pistol Practice
June 27 NRA Prelim Match
June 28 .22 match
June 29 CF match
June 30 .45 match
July 1 SAFS; EIC; .22 EIC
July 2 P100; NTI; NTT; Awards

Tough to say who to believe, but right now I have no good reason to believe either story.

DirComp,

Are you even going to try to get the CMP to have their pistol events on the days prior to or after the NRA pistol matches?  Or even consider keeping the agreed upon dates of June 26?  Having the two events separated will cause reduced attendance to both.  If it stays that way, I don't know which one I would attend.  I know I won't drive 8+ hours one way more than once in a two week period.  I understand that the CMP wants to separate their events from the NRA events, but at least the dates were such a competitor could still do both.  What do you propose that we do when we've been able to do both for so long?

I agree that you took the competitors in mind for High Power guys and we just want the same.  From our seat, you just up and changed the dates for the pistol National Matches without any consideration of the pistol competitors after it was published as "final".  Did you even discuss it with the CMP?  We don't know if you did either of those.  Appearances are that you didn't.  The timing of this change and the way it was announced was horrible.  We found out by reading an article about High Power.  If a pistol shooter is not on Facebook or this forum, how are they going to find out about this change? 

DS

DirComp wrote:

jmdavis wrote:I will shoot Canton, spend a few days exploring the history around Lake Erie and then Shoot CMP Pistol. I will then go home and work for 2 weeks before coming back for P100, NTI and Hearst DOubles. It's a lot of driving and I would have really liked to shoot NRA pistol again. But that option was removed by the date change. 

Of course what's one Marksman in the grand scheme of things.

Strange, since you can go from Canton straight to the NRA matches at Camp Perry, just you have always done for the last 40 years.

This is just embarrassing. When the director is resorting to snide retorts to the membership there is a serious problem. With the apparent lack of communication to the Pistol contingent and amorphous scheduling how is it acceptable for the person in charge to make pithy comments regarding a shooters legitimate feeling of abandonment. For shame.

I'm only a life member with the NRA in my Will.

Idiots.

Amatures.

So many bad decisions in so little time.

This is so sad because the NRA was supposed to be an organization originally started to address the lack of shooting skill of the Union Soldiers.  

I am the director of a junior rifle team and a very active pistol shooter in my own right.  I am seriously considering moving to USAS and CMP only competitive shooting after all of this bullshit.

Who was it that said things were quiet around here lately?

OK, I've listened (read) long enough.  As a professional ass() when needed, let me pass along some comments.

(1) The only thing worse than the NRA and CMP not working together is the number of people posting what they think they know.

(2) It will probably take time for CMP to regroup and re-evaluate their position as well.  Think about it, how many competitors are going all the way to Perry for basically a 1-day match?

(3) Canton will take the brunt of the changes, but let's face it, they will try their best to be the match right before Perry NRA pistol.

(4) Don't forget that Bristol, Ind, will probably be rescheduling as well.

(5) A number of you wanted a 1 or 2 day match versus most of the week.  You now have it, make a choice.

(6) A number of you wanted to move from Perry.  OK, but you need to make sure the vendors are on board first.  That's the biggest issue the smallbore competitors are complaining about.  And this issues is across the shooting sports.  Even IPSC is moving match dates around and losing the vendors because of it. 

(7) No matter what, somebody has to run things.  Sometimes that means that you (we) can vote, but somebody else has the SAY. (If you don't know what that means, I can explain it later.)   

(Eight) Yes, the NRA shafted us with a changes.  However, like all other matches if you show up on the date that is not the match date, you will not be able to shoot. 

(9) Yes, the CMP shafted us with changes.  (See item 8.)

(10) Unfortunately, we will probably need to be patient so that all the entities running the matches have a chance to regroup (if they want to), including Bristol, Canton, CMP and NRA.  

(11) I will be sending my personal thanks and appreciation to Bristol and Canton, and support whatever they decide to do, and will try to support them. 

(12) I will be sending my personal comments directly to CMP and NRA, thanking them for the complete screwing of pistol competitors and breaking the cardinal (pun intended) rule of matches.  (No. 1: Keep match dates and formats consistent, shooters do not like to have their cheese moved.)  CMP will learn (eventually) that have one day matches without a National NRA match will seriously reduce their attendance.  NRA will learn (eventually) that consistency and location are the key to attendance.

(13) No matter what, SWCG will have matches, 4th Saturday, March through October.

(14) I'll be shooting as often as I can, where I can, and supporting matches as best I can.

(15) If possible, run some matches yourself and see how you like it.

(16) I'm pretty much done commenting and don't plan to return to this subject, you all have fun beating everybody up.  

Respectfully,

Cecil Rhodes

CR10X wrote:OK, I've listened (read) long enough.  As a professional asshole when needed, let me pass along some comments.

It is unfortunate in our current political environment (on the forum and in the country) that a voice of reason is seen as an asshole.

Thanks Cecil. I've started typing responses a couple of times but deleted them because I couldn't say it right. You said it better.

The most important thing is to address comments to the correct parties. We know Dennis participates in this forum from time to time, but if you really want your voice to be heard, tell the CMP and NRA directly. 

The second most important thing, IMO, is patience. It's going to take a few days or weeks (hopefully) for all the issues to settle down and schedules and websites to be updated. It looks like the CMP and NRA are fighting over what they think is best for the sport. Unfortunately the competitors are suffering from the conflict. This is particularly bad for those who have to request vacation time before the end of the year.

Agreed Cecil.... I do like #12.....

Can somebody post contact information for NRA and CMP? Every indication so far suggests that the NRA has made Precision Pistol their lowest priority, but it can't hurt.....

NRA  director compadmin@nrahq.org  pistol program pistol@nrahq.org

CMP competitions@thecmp.org

Danehogle wrote:Agreed Cecil.... I do like #12.....

+1, particularly #15, very well said.

I wonder what would happen if the CMP ran 3 days of 900's for a 2700. I just want to shoot with good people, at a good place, and have a good steak.

jmdavis wrote:I wonder what would happen if the CMP ran 3 days of 900's for a 2700. I just want to shoot with good people, at a good place, and have a good steak.

+1
That is exactly why I have decided to skip Camp Perry in 2017 and spend my money on well run, well attended local, state and regional matches.  

If you want to know what is driving the decisions of the NRA and CMP as regards the National Matches, just follow the money.